If you believe in reincarnation...

[serp777]

Who knows, it could an entirely random re-cycling of consciousness, like a magical mystery tour.

True, but yeah but I mean if you're a different person with brand new memories, a new personality, new perceptions, etc, then in what sense do you have any connection or relation to the previous being you supposedly were? I've always seen that as the major logical chasm. Also the mechanism by which consciousness is transferred via some brain SATA or usb cable that can read and write data and then transfer it to a magical medium for temporary copying and or storage. Reincarnation is in total contradiction with the laws of physics and the universe we know--but i guess you don't believe in reincarnation anyways so you probably agree with me here.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

True, but yeah but I mean if you're a different person with brand new memories, a new personality, new perceptions, etc, then in what sense do you have any connection or relation to the previous being you supposedly were?

You wouldn't, it would just be an impersonal "chunk" of consciousness inhabiting another life form. This model would view consciousness as just another element or energy to be recycled. I can see why this option isn't popular though, people like to think that some aspect of them will continue.

 

[Valjean]

Lives like film loops, with "chunks" of consciousness continually sliding along them.

 

[rocala]

@serp777 said " I mean if you're a different person with brand new memories, a new personality, new perceptions, etc, then in what sense do you have any connection or relation to the previous being you supposedly were? I've always seen that as the major logical chasm".

Yes that has usually been my view too. However it is dependent on the idea that our life on earth is the important component. Maybe it's what happens in between that is significant.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Yes that has usually been my view too. However it is dependent on the idea that our life on earth is the important component. Maybe it's what happens in between that is significant.

In between what?

 

[rocala]

In between what?

Organic life.

 

[George-ananda]

Aren't there many masters who have concluded that it is random?

Not that I have ever heard of. One thing that I found in my studies is that the wisdom gained from my paranormal, eastern (Indian), theosophical, spiritualist sources dovetail to a convincing and impressively consistent worldview.

 

[buddhist]

True, but yeah but I mean if you're a different person with brand new memories, a new personality, new perceptions, etc, then in what sense do you have any connection or relation to the previous being you supposedly were? I've always seen that as the major logical chasm. Also the mechanism by which consciousness is transferred via some brain SATA or usb cable that can read and write data and then transfer it to a magical medium for temporary copying and or storage. Reincarnation is in total contradiction with the laws of physics and the universe we know--but i guess you don't believe in reincarnation anyways so you probably agree with me here.

I'd rather call it "rebirth" instead of "reincarnation". We are each undergoing rebirth every single moment of our lives. I am not the same as I was 10 years ago, 1 year ago, or even 1 second ago.

 

[David1967]

I'd rather call it "rebirth" instead of "reincarnation". We are each undergoing rebirth every single moment of our lives. I am not the same as I was 10 years ago, 1 year ago, or even 1 second ago.

Me neither, thank goodness.

 

[George-ananda]

True, but yeah but I mean if you're a different person with brand new memories, a new personality, new perceptions, etc, then in what sense do you have any connection or relation to the previous being you supposedly were? I've always seen that as the major logical chasm. Also the mechanism by which consciousness is transferred via some brain SATA or usb cable that can read and write data and then transfer it to a magical medium for temporary copying and or storage. Reincarnation is in total contradiction with the laws of physics and the universe we know--but i guess you don't believe in reincarnation anyways so you probably agree with me here.

For this reincarnation believer there is a reincarnating soul that remembers all incarnations and grows from the experiences. We are more our soul than our physical body.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I'd rather call it "rebirth" instead of "reincarnation". We are each undergoing rebirth every single moment of our lives. I am not the same as I was 10 years ago, 1 year ago, or even 1 second ago.

So what is reborn?

 

[George-ananda]

So what is reborn?

An evolving (impermanent) soul that exists through many incarnations.

 

[sun rise]

So what is reborn?

The self puts on a new coat, a new body, to gain experiences, to experience everything in life. In many Eastern traditions, this is 8,400,000 lives!

 

[buddhist]

So what is reborn?

Things like our body, mind, soul, spirit/consciousness, held together by the desire for "self". As long as that desire remains, the illusion of "self" (as expressed through rebirth of the body, mind, etc.) continues the unending process of rebirth.

The body, mind, soul, spirit/consciousness are each like cords which make up a rope. The length of rope represents the process of time. You can start at any point on the rope to represent one particular point in time, and move to another point on the rope to represent another, future point in time. Is it the same "rope" at point A as it is at point B? I hope the answer is obvious, that it is yes, and no.

When the "self" desire is rooted out, the cords which compose the rope are untied, and rebirth no longer occurs.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

... soul, spirit.

Umm, we don't really have those in Buddhism.

 

[buddhist]

Umm, we don't really have those in Buddhism.

You're right, they don't exist in reality, but IMO it is expedient for the sake of communication to call certain changing processes "soul" and "spirit".

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You're right, they don't exist in reality, but IMO it is expedient for the sake of communication to call certain changing processes "soul" and "spirit".

Careful though, we don't want people thinking Buddhism is a school of Hinduism.

 

[buddhist]

Careful though, we don't want people thinking Buddhism is a school of Hinduism.

Good point; unfortunately, it is difficult to communicate things such as this which are not readily understood by other traditions otherwise.

 

[rocala]

Good point; unfortunately, it is difficult to communicate things such as this which are not readily understood by other traditions otherwise.

I agree, it would help if Buddhism had a single word to "communicate things such as this" instead of borrowing terms such as soul etc.

 

[buddhist]

I agree, it would help if Buddhism had a single word to "communicate things such as this" instead of borrowing terms such as soul etc.

True; it may be unfortunate, but even Lord Buddha had to use expedient speech when communicating with his disciples and seekers. Comparably, we expediently use the illusory things of samsara as useful tools to achieve nibbana.