If you can't even say what you mean, then what?

[Left Coast]

@Kooky just provided some data on this point, thanks @Kooky.

As @Kooky mentioned, this is not an easy topic to get stats on. It used to be that a person needed to go thru two years of counseling before they could proceed with transitioning. That's since been relaxed, but I'm not sure that the relaxing was such a good idea. There is a lot of detrans-ing going on, and that's not something that should be ignored.

But that's just it icehorse - you don't actually know that. If your position now is that we just don't have enough data to know how much detransitioning is going on, then we have no rational justification for saying it happens "a lot." All we can say if that's the case is, we don't know.

Now from the data that has been reported above (thank you @Kooky), when data has been collected, the percentage of people who have detransitioned has been consistently low, usually in the single digits. So that's not a basis for saying this happens "a lot" by any reasonable definition of that term.

So it appears that no one can answer your question precisely @Left Coast. That's true with many complex topics. In general we make considered opinions when it comes to dealing with problem areas, even if the science isn't perfect. I can use climate change as an example. I suspect that you're not a climate change denier, even though the science isn't perfect?

So why do you believe in climate change (if you do), but you're so insistent on having perfect data concerning detrans-ing?

I would submit, without derailing the entire thread into a debate about climate change, that we have vastly more data that the climate is changing than we do that detransitioning is some rampant phenomenon.

 

[icehorse]

I would submit, without derailing the entire thread into a debate about climate change, that we have vastly more data that the climate is changing than we do that detransitioning is some rampant phenomenon.

"rampant" is your word.

So, IYO, what's an acceptable level of detrans-ing?

 

[Left Coast]

"rampant" is your word.

How is "a lot" different than "rampant?" The word games here are growing tired. The point is that you have no basis for your claim about how often this is happening.

So, IYO, what's an acceptable level of detrans-ing?

I don't have a magic number in my head. The medical bodies that regulate this sort of thing have standards by which they weigh relative risks and benefits of any medical procedure, including its effectiveness, failure rates, side effects, etc. I leave it to those folks to make those complex judgment calls. I don't think it comes down to a single magic number.

 

[Kooky]

So @icehorse when you made all these claims regarding detransitioning, did you have access to any data at all or were you simply making wild guesses based on nothing but your own imagination?

 

[icehorse]

So @icehorse when you made all these claims regarding detransitioning, did you have access to any data at all or were you simply making wild guesses based on nothing but your own imagination?

you clearly haven't been paying attention in this thread.

 

[Kooky]

you clearly haven't been paying attention in this thread.

I've paid enough attention to notice that there's nothing to back up the numerous empirical claims you made here.

But don't worry, I'm not really looking for a discussion; you've already stated that you're not interested in engaging me in good faith, after all.

 

[icehorse]

I've paid enough attention to notice that there's nothing to back up the numerous empirical claims you made here.

But don't worry, I'm not really looking for a discussion; you've already stated that you're not interested in engaging me in good faith, after all.

Well your most recent accusation is strong evidence that you have not been paying enough attention. As far as good faith goes, I extend it to everyone until they prove they don't reciprocate.

 

[Kooky]

Well your most recent accusation is strong evidence that you have not been paying enough attention.

And now you are going for the ad hominem because you can't back up your claims with anything.

As far as good faith goes, I extend it to everyone until they prove they don't reciprocate.

And you already said in this very thread that you don't take my posts in good faith.
So there is no point in having this discussion with you in the first place. Have a nice day.