If You Like Your Insurance Plan You Can Keep It...Not

[metis]

Generally speaking, these insurers do not have all the necessary coverage mandated by the ACA, so they're essentially dropping out. I say "Good riddens" to them.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Quote:
So, the following are, according to both of you, false? Can neither of you hear or read?

Yes, but apparently you can't. There are two claims:

(1) If you like your doctor, under this reform, you can keep your doctor.

(2) If you like your plan, under this reform, you can keep your plan.

Your article that you presented in the OP has nothing to do with people losing their doctors and you have presented nothing to suggest the ACA is responsible for people losing their doctors. That takes care of #1.

#2 has already been addressed repeatedly, e.g. in the post of mine that you quoted, here it is again:

From the source:

"Like other insurers, the Blue Shield letters let customers know they have to make a decision by Dec. 31 or they will automatically be enrolled in a recommended plan."

Whooptey-doo. Insurers regularly change their policies, typically every year, and require people to find a new insurer or automatically be enrolled in the new plan. That was happening long before the ACA.

The article says this is happening to hundreds of thousands of people ... in other words, 0.1% of Americans ... and as the article says "By all accounts, the new policies will offer consumers better coverage, in some cases, for comparable cost". Obama did not lie, the ACA doesn't make you change your insurer it just requires your insurer to offer a certain minimum level of coverage.

And if you have the patience to listen to more than a 5 second sound bite, Obama explained that's what the ACA does.

 

[Falvlun]

So, about a month ago, we all got a notice from our employer that our health insurance plan was ACA compliant, both in policy and pricing.

Today, we get a letter saying that the Blue Advantage HMO plan (the one I am in) is being discontinued. "The decision to elimnate the HMO plan was based upon the significant increase received for the plan. The increase was due to the new fees added for the ACA and the increase in claim experience." (quoted from the letter)

This explanation is unfortunately unclear as to whether BCBS is the one discontinuing the plan or whether my employer has decided to drop carrying that option.

I just think that the whole thing smells shady.
What "fees" are they referring to?
Also, why did they wait almost a month to let us know, especially since open enrollment end-date is right around the corner (Nov 8)?

The alternative plan being offered is a PPO.

 

[Magic Man]

So, about a month ago, we all got a notice from our employer that our health insurance plan was ACA compliant, both in policy and pricing.

Today, we get a letter saying that the Blue Advantage HMO plan (the one I am in) is being discontinued. "The decision to elimnate the HMO plan was based upon the significant increase received for the plan. The increase was due to the new feeds added for the ACA and the increase in claim experience." (quoted from the letter)

This explanation is unfortunately unclear as to whether BCBS is the one discontinuing the plan or whether my employer has decided to drop carrying that option.

I just think that the whole thing smells shady.
What "fees" are they referring to?
Also, why did they wait almost a month to let us know, especially since open enrollment end-date is right around the corner (Nov 8)?

The alternative plan being offered is a PPO.

Exactly. It seems more often than not it's not the ACA that's forcing plan changes, but rather the insurance companies or the employers deciding to change, even though they could continue to offer the same thing.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Sixty-two percent of all American bankruptcies are due to unpaid medical bills; 78% of these were insured at the time.[10]

Unraveling the Crisis in American Healthcare | Physicians for a National Health Program


It does seem to me that as long as the profit motive remains an integral part of the system, that the healthcare system will never really work.

It is not just doctors who make money, the insurance companies are getting a good portion as well.

The 78% is an excellent example dust1n, a young person with an 80% policy who receives a 300,000 dollar medical bill cannot afford to pay the remaining 60K.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

It is not just doctors who make money, the insurance companies are getting a good portion as well.

The 78% is an excellent example dust1n, a young person with an 80% policy who receives a 300,000 dollar medical bill cannot afford to pay the remaining 60K.

But still better than being on the hook for the full $300,000 wouldn't you agree?

This is just the reality with the current insurance structure in this country. I can imagine myself in that same exact situation but the difference with me is that under the insurance structure we have in this country I had to think about a solution to help alleviate this so I got Aflac. Not all can afford a secondary policy which is another reason we need to move to Single Payer.

 

[Revoltingest]

NBC holds forth on the admin knowing in advance that many would lose their health insurance plan.
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_...ns-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite

 

[Mr Spinkles]

NBC holds forth on the admin knowing in advance that many would lose their health insurance plan.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...JgUYkwj7_NDonXgmdwRrSNATjgRD9HCAVveKzL7HBYlii

It's misleading to say that the 0.1% of Americans referred to in the OP "lost" their health insurance plan. Their benefits changed (like they do practically every year) and if the customers do nothing they will be auto-enrolled in the plan with the same insurer.

 

[esmith]

So, is or is not the subject line of this post true? The answer is yes. Now, all of you can squirm and attempt to justify the benefits outweigh the negatives; However, you have to admit that what the President and the supporters said about being able to keep your health plan if you liked it is a bald face lie.

White House knew millions could not keep plans under Obamacare

 

[Mr Spinkles]

So, is or is not the subject line of this post true? The answer is yes. Now, all of you can squirm and attempt to justify the benefits outweigh the negatives; However, you have to admit that what the President and the supporters said about being able to keep your health plan if you liked it is a bald face lie.

White House knew millions could not keep plans under Obamacare

No, it's not a bald faced lie, for 3 reasons:

(1) Your CNBC article is talking about "50 to 75 percent of ... 14 million consumers", i.e. up to 3% of Americans. That means, for starters, that for 97% of Americans no one is even SUGGESTING they might be "losing" their insurance under Obamacare.

(2) In the context of the debates over Obamacare, the GOP was saying the ACA would take away your health care, the Dems responded no, it wouldn't. Both claims are 5-second sound bites intended for the impatient mass consumption of Americans. Now, no 5-second sound bite can ever be the whole story. But when no one is even SUGGESTING that 97% of Americans are "losing" their insurance, clearly the Dem sound bite was much, much closer to the mark than the GOP sound bite.

(3) For those with the patience to go beyond a 5-second sound bite, Obama explained, at length, on numerous occasions, that the ACA just changes the minimum coverage required by plans. Sure, sometimes insurers/employers will change the plan on an annual basis just like before the ACA, and sometimes they will change the plan in order to meet ACA requirements, i.e. coverage for kids until they turn 26, etc.

 

[Revoltingest]

So, is or is not the subject line of this post true? The answer is yes. Now, all of you can squirm and attempt to justify the benefits outweigh the negatives; However, you have to admit that what the President and the supporters said about being able to keep your health plan if you liked it is a bald face lie.
White House knew millions could not keep plans under Obamacare

The admissions continue....
Top Dem Admits: 'We Knew' | National Review Online
Report: Obama administration knew millions would be forced to change insurance

 

[Mr Spinkles]

It's shocking enough that Obama knew the Affordable Care Act would affect people's health insurance ... but what's really outrageous is that he confessed as much in a live television interview waaaaaaaaay back in 2009:

“When I say ‘If you have your plan and you like it,… or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don't have to change plans,’” the president said after we asked him about this, “what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform.”

President Obama Continues Questionable

and ...

"I mean, that's, that's the case whether we pass health care or not. I mean, the, look, the, the, the fact is that right now, all across the country, people are losing their health care. Every day. You, you can travel into Washington, D.C. And you'll find somebody on the street whose employer just dropped them from health care. Or who has decided to increase their deductibles. Or increase their premiums."
Continued the president, "So, those choices are being made by employers constantly, right? I can't pass a law that says, 'I'm sorry, employers, you can never make changes to the health care plans that you provide your employees.' What I can say is that the government is not going to force you to, your employer or you to join a government plan, for example. If you're happy with it, and your employer's happy with it, keep it."

More on the “If You Like Your Health Plan, You’ll Keep Your Health Plan” Promise - ABC News

Caught ya, Obama!

 

[Mr Spinkles]

More proof that Obama knew many Americans' health insurance would change. Here's what Obama said at a press conference in 2009 (he must not have realized the mic was live):

“When I say if you have your plan and you like it,…or you have a doctor and you like your doctor, that you don’t have to change plans, what I’m saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform,” the President said.

The president went on to say that, “Now, are there going to be employers right now, assuming we don’t do anything — let’s say that we take the advice of some folks who are out there and say, ‘Oh, this is not the time to do health care. We can’t afford it. It’s too complicated. Let’s take our time,’ et cetera. So let’s assume that nothing happened. I can guarantee you that there’s the possibility for a whole lot of Americans out there that they’re not going to end up having the same health care they have. Because what’s going to happen is, as costs keep on going up, employers are going to start making decisions. We’ve got to raise premiums on our employees. In some cases, we can’t provide health insurance at all. And so there are going to be a whole set of changes out there. That’s exactly why health reform is so important.”

What Does the President

Caught ya! Way back in 2009!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

It's shocking enough that Obama knew the Affordable Care Act would affect people's health insurance ... but what's really outrageous is that he confessed as much in a live television interview waaaaaaaaay back in 2009:

President Obama Continues Questionable

and ...

More on the “If You Like Your Health Plan, You’ll Keep Your Health Plan” Promise - ABC News

Caught ya, Obama!

And you would think this would be the end of their exaggerations but sadly no...those on the right need something they believe is substantial enough to sink their teeth into....but this ain't it.....

 

[BSM1]

The fact that there are so many people willing to go out of their way to make Obama look like a liar....

It doesn't really take that many.

 

[Revoltingest]

It doesn't really take that many.

What is so interesting to observe is now that the administration's intentional misrepresentation (aka "lying") about Obamacare's effects (like the NSA spying scandal) are known, instead of continuing to deny the lie, it is dismissed with statistical arguments of insignificance.
Soon-to-be-hated analogy time:
If I claimed to rob no one in BSMville, I would be telling the truth if I robbed only 100 of the 10,000 residents.

There isn't much of an issue. The campaign worked, & Obamacare will be here
to stay. The only question is what it will morph into over the coming years.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

What is so interesting to observe is now that the administration's intentional misrepresentation (aka "lying") about Obamacare's effects (like the NSA spying scandal) are known, instead of continuing to deny the lie, it is dismissed with statistical arguments of insignificance.
Soon-to-be-hated analogy time:
If I claimed to rob no one in BSMville, I would be telling the truth if I robbed only 100 of the 10,000 residents.

No you would be telling the truth if people were robbed in BSMville every day, and you simply added security cameras at a bank parking lot in BSMville, and in addition to reducing robberies overall, this caused an increase in robberies at the grocery across the street where there are no cameras.

Insurers change plans every year just as robbers rob people every year. Yes the ACA affected the coverage levels which affected these decisions, just as the state-by-state regulations which already existed affected the decisions. Just as regulations designed to limit crime affect robbers' decisions. That doesn't mean it's accurate to say, as the GOP was saying, that the ACA "takes" your insurance away (as in literally, directly, takes it away, which is what they were suggesting).

I repeat:

"So, those choices are being made by employers constantly, right? I can't pass a law that says, 'I'm sorry, employers, you can never make changes to the health care plans that you provide your employees.' What I can say is that the government is not going to force you to, your employer or you to join a government plan, for example."

- Obama, asked to explain what he means when he says "if you like your health insurance, you can keep it", in 2009 (emphasis added).

That statement and the others are accurate. Again this proves Obama "knew" all along that some people were going to see changes to their insurance every year, we have him admitting it in 2009.

 

[esmith]

What is so interesting to observe is now that the administration's intentional misrepresentation (aka "lying") about Obamacare's effects (like the NSA spying scandal) are known, instead of continuing to deny the lie, it is dismissed with statistical arguments of insignificance.
Soon-to-be-hated analogy time:
If I claimed to rob no one in BSMville, I would be telling the truth if I robbed only 100 of the 10,000 residents.

There isn't much of an issue. The campaign worked, & Obamacare will be here
to stay. The only question is what it will morph into over the coming years.

No you would be telling the truth if people were robbed in BSMville every day, and you simply added security cameras at a bank parking lot in BSMville, and in addition to reducing robberies overall, this caused an increase in robberies at the grocery across the street where there are no cameras.

Insurers change plans every year just as robbers rob people every year. Yes the ACA affected the coverage levels which affected these decisions, just as the state-by-state regulations which already existed affected the decisions. Just as regulations designed to limit crime affect robbers' decisions. That doesn't mean it's accurate to say, as the GOP was saying, that the ACA "takes" your insurance away (as in literally, directly, takes it away, which is what they were suggesting).

I repeat:

- Obama, asked to explain what he means when he says "if you like your health insurance, you can keep it", in 2009 (emphasis added).

That statement and the others are accurate. Again this proves Obama "knew" all along that some people were going to see changes to their insurance every year, we have him admitting it in 2009.

Revoltingest, their minds are made up, stop confusing them with facts.

 

[McBell]

Revoltingest, their minds are made up, stop confusing them with facts.

Kettle, meet pot.

 

[Mister_T]

It's shocking enough that Obama knew the Affordable Care Act would affect people's health insurance ... but what's really outrageous is that he confessed as much in a live television interview waaaaaaaaay back in 2009:

President Obama Continues Questionable

and ...

More on the “If You Like Your Health Plan, You’ll Keep Your Health Plan” Promise - ABC News

Caught ya, Obama!

Stop ruining this with facts. We can't poo-poo on Obama if you do that.

BTW, I just got my benefits for next year and not only do I get to keep my insurance, it costs me almost $10.00 dollars less a month, when every year since I've been here at my job (7 years this past July) it's gone up $2.00 or close to it. Thanks for nothing Obama!!!