If you really want to defeat Trump, try a different strategy

[Revoltingest]

Because Bush was the CIA honcho with a vendetta against Iran. He was accustomed to covert evil. Reagan was notorious for his hands off management style. Bush could have run that war without telling Reagan anything he didn't want Reagan to know.
Bush had means, motive, and opportunity. I see no reason for Reagan to even care.
Tom
ETA I am sure that, with the clarity of hindsight, some Iranians really regretted helping Reagan/ Bush beat Carter.

Hands off management doesn't mean unawareness of major projects.
Even Congress knew much....
United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War - Wikipedia
Reagan wasn't briefed on this?.....
Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran
I don't believe he'd overlook such major foreign adventurism.

 

[Stevicus]

Trump is currently doing his best to undo all of the anti-corruption protections that the Obama administration put in place. Dems didn't accept corruption. They fought against it, and Trump is trying to undo that.

Whenever anyone tries to present such a stark, black-and-white difference between the two parties, as if one is the party of Jedi Knights and other party as Sith Lords, I have to take it with a grain of salt.

Hoover is dead, last I checked. The FBI doesn't operate like that any more, and I think you know that.

No, I don't know that, and neither do you. You're just parroting propaganda and expecting me to accept it.

They only reason you are denigrating the FBI is because they are investigating Trump.

I've been denigrating the FBI and the Federal government ever since Nixon. It really has very little to do with Trump himself. All I'm doing is observing that the same people who have been enemies of the working classes for the past several decades have now chosen to become of enemies of Trump, for reasons I'm yet unable to fathom.

And since when did liberal Democrats become such ardent fans of the FBI, CIA, NSA, and other such agencies which have been enemies of freedom for a very long time now? Whatever happened to the left-wing spirit of questioning authority? Have they all become a bunch of mindless toadies now? That's sad.

 

[Stevicus]

From what we can see, the only reason you dislike these civil servants is that they are investigating a politician you happen to like.

Actually, it's the reverse. I never did like the Federal government or the civil servants or the ruling class of America - and this was long before Trump, so my view has been consistent all along. If the same people who have been ruining America all these past decades decide that Trump is a bad guy, that's something that gets my attention.

You can't seem to point to any wrongdoing on their part, so that leaves the impression that you think the laws should be different for Trump.

I believe that the US government should exist for the benefit of the American people. When the apparatus of the state is utilized for political purposes, as well as massive smear and propaganda campaigns which come out of nowhere designed to manipulate public opinion (along with scads of people coming out of the woodwork in public forums like this), then obviously something fishy is going on. That's what I observe.

When someone tries to paint a stark difference between the two parties like it's night and day, then I know I'm dealing with a political hack who can't be trusted and whose views are tainted.

 

[Stevicus]

From what we can see,

And who is "we"? Are you speaking as a member of an organized group? That reveals a lot right there. At least I can say I'm speaking for myself; I arrived at my views independently.

I guess the Russians aren't the only ones using troll farms.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

No, I don't know that, and neither do you. You're just parroting propaganda and expecting me to accept it.

Don't you think that you should have some evidence of corruption within the FBI before making accusations against them?

I've been denigrating the FBI and the Federal government ever since Nixon. It really has very little to do with Trump himself. All I'm doing is observing that the same people who have been enemies of the working classes for the past several decades have now chosen to become of enemies of Trump, for reasons I'm yet unable to fathom.

This is sounding more and more like the Turner Diaries.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Actually, it's the reverse. I never did like the Federal government or the civil servants or the ruling class of America - and this was long before Trump, so my view has been consistent all along. If the same people who have been ruining America all these past decades decide that Trump is a bad guy, that's something that gets my attention.

How is the FBI ruining America?

I believe that the US government should exist for the benefit of the American people. When the apparatus of the state is utilized for political purposes, as well as massive smear and propaganda campaigns which come out of nowhere designed to manipulate public opinion (along with scads of people coming out of the woodwork in public forums like this), then obviously something fishy is going on. That's what I observe.

So the FBI shouldn't investigate crimes?

 

[Stevicus]

Don't you think that you should have some evidence of corruption within the FBI before making accusations against them?

The fact that they're relentlessly pursuing an investigation against a sitting president without any basis or fact should be enough. It's just Mike Nifong and the Duke Lacrosse team. Even though he knew they were innocent, he kept pursuing the case. Eventually, you just have to cut your losses and give it up, but they're not doing that. Doesn't that tell us enough?

This is sounding more and more like the Turner Diaries.

I never read the Turner Diaries, so I have no idea what you're getting at.

How is the FBI ruining America?

I wasn't referring to the FBI. Read more carefully next time.

So the FBI shouldn't investigate crimes?

Did I say that?

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

The fact that they're relentlessly pursuing an investigation against a sitting president without any basis or fact should be enough.

There have been multiple indictments so far, so how can you say there is no basis in fact?

 

[Stevicus]

There have been multiple indictments so far, so how can you say there is no basis in fact?

I know of no indictments against Trump, but in any case, I'll wait to see how it turns out in court.

 

[tytlyf]

I know of no indictments against Trump, but in any case, I'll wait to see how it turns out in court.

The FBI investigation is about the Trump campaign, not Trump himself. Been that way since the beginning.

 

[Shadow Link]

The one who defeats Trump would have to be just as much a political outsider and one who hates The Swamp as much as many Americans do. Someone who won't defend the policies of the establishment these past decades. It should be someone from the streets or from the sticks, no Ivy Leaguers or other products of pampered insularity.

Mark Cuban, maybe?

 

[tytlyf]

Mark Cuban, maybe?

No, the presidential position is a leadership position. That's why someone who is a community organizer has more credentials for the presidency than a silver spoon orangie who hires his expertise because he can afford it. Trump is no leader, more like a manipulator.

Being a businessperson is meaningless when it comes to the presidency.

 

[Shadow Link]

No, the presidential position is a leadership position. That's why someone who is a community organizer has more credentials for the presidency than a silver spoon orangie who hires his expertise because he can afford it. Trump is no leader, more like a manipulator.

Being a businessperson is meaningless when it comes to the presidency.

Since we're encapsulating ideas, I figured your concerns would be more in line with finding someone that wouldn't crap all over the constitution. You know, like the last great president we've ever had, Eisenhower.

 

[Shad]

There were no reports of violence on the other side.

That is because the media buried it. There were counter-protesters attacking those in the march in videos on Youtube for months.

 

[Stevicus]

Mark Cuban, maybe?

Maybe. I think the trouble with the Democrats is that they've lost their roots. They ostensibly wish to defeat Trump, but in order to do so, they'll need to embrace the paleo-liberal policies they used to support but have since abandoned in favor of the more right-wing "neo-liberal" policies supported by Hillary and others.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

I know of no indictments against Trump, but in any case, I'll wait to see how it turns out in court.

The investigation has always been about how Russia meddled in the last presidential elections. It has never been solely about Trump.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Maybe. I think the trouble with the Democrats is that they've lost their roots. They ostensibly wish to defeat Trump, but in order to do so, they'll need to embrace the paleo-liberal policies they used to support but have since abandoned in favor of the more right-wing "neo-liberal" policies supported by Hillary and others.

Which policies are you thinking of?

 

[tytlyf]

Since we're encapsulating ideas, I figured your concerns would be more in line with finding someone that wouldn't crap all over the constitution. You know, like the last great president we've ever had, Eisenhower.

I didn't vote republican, I did vote for Obama. You actually thought I'm a Trump voter?

 

[Shadow Link]

I didn't vote republican, I did vote for Obama. You actually thought I'm a Trump voter?

No. However, wasn't Trump really an Independent strategically running as a republican?