If you take away religion, what arguments are there against homosexuality?

[Midnight Pete]

If you take away religion, what arguments are there against homosexuality?

Just one: heterosexuality.

 

[LuisDantas]

In general,I support homosexuality---without being a gay---but I'm against it when the couple are thinking about adopting children---cause I think that there's indeed somewhere a law that permits that...
People are not ready for homosexuality so the children will be judged fir something that is not their decision..

I'm sorry that you feel like that.

Homosexuals are often among the best parents that there are. Their loving support beats the efforts of many heterosexual married couples and deserves society's full acceptance.

As for children being judged for things that are not of their choice, well, that is unfortunately how this world works. We shouldn't avoid such challenges, but rather overcome and correct them.

 

[LuisDantas]

Just one: heterosexuality.

How is that an argument?

 

[LuisDantas]

OFten the atheist takes the purely scientific view which is largely utilitaarian. Biologically homosexuality has no function in the life cycle so it is basicly a waste of societies energies.

That would be true if society were all and exclusively about breeding as fast as possible.

As it turns out, breeding and particularly raising children is a serious responsibility that we as people usually fall somewhat short of fulfilling. Homosexuality turns out to be in fact a blessing by that measure, because it improves the odds of people actually being capable and willing of raising their children properly. Or, at the very least, of becoming loving, non-overburdened family members and role models for their extended families

 

[Midnight Pete]

How is that an argument?

If anything directly opposes homosexuality, it's heterosexuality. They equal and opposing forces, you might say.

 

[LuisDantas]

Might I, Pete?

Seriously, what would the point be? It is at least just as natural to say that heterosexuality directly opposes itself.

 

[jarofthoughts]

OFten the atheist takes the purely scientific view which is largely utilitaarian. Biologically homosexuality has no function in the life cycle so it is basicly a waste of societies energies. Of course this mechanical view of sex isn't much fun. Communistic atheism in the former Soviet Union tended to reflect those views with the most dour repressive feeling on earth. come to think of it the birthrate went down as well even though the USSR made it a public duty to procreate. Take the fun out of sex and a happy future from prospective children and a low birth rate is the result.

I think you haven't thought this fully trough.

Even if you look at society from a utilitarian point of view it is in society's interest that as many of its children as possible have responsible loving parents.

Altruism is not prevalent because it's good to be nice but because from a purely utilitarian (and evolutonary) point of view altruism works. Which, of course, is why we do not only find central aspects of it in every human society under the sun, no matter their culture or religious basis, but also in other social mammals such as gorillas, vampire bats and whatnot.

Homosexuality, with or without the adoption of children goes towards the same point. The children get responsible loving parents and grow up to be productive members of society while the adults get to live happier, and thus, more productive lives.

The life cycles of social animals and the societies they live in go beyond reproduction.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Might I, Pete?

Seriously, what would the point be? It is at least just as natural to say that heterosexuality directly opposes itself.

No, heterosexuality is in harmony with itself. I've never heard of a straight man emotionally devastated by his attraction to women warring inside his head with his attraction to women.

 

[LuisDantas]

Really? You lead a most fortunate life, Pete.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

In general,I support homosexuality---without being a gay---but I'm against it when the couple are thinking about adopting children---cause I think that there's indeed somewhere a law that permits that...
People are not ready for homosexuality so the children will be judged fir something that is not their decision..

While this is a slightly valid point on a social level it's not an argument against homosexuality. Now I do understand your point but there are plenty of gay/lesbian single parents and couple raising kids who are attending private and public schools that do and don't experience the social (judgment, prejudice, phobia).

 

[Dirty Penguin]

OFten the atheist takes the purely scientific view which is largely utilitaarian. Biologically homosexuality has no function in the life cycle so it is basicly a waste of societies energies.

The OP is asking you to suspend religion from your view and this is the best you can do? This is definitely an opinion and not a key deciding factor because we are not the only animals on the planet that are homosexual.

Of course this mechanical view of sex isn't much fun.

How would you know? Is there something you'd like to share?

Communistic atheism in the former Soviet Union tended to reflect those views with the most dour repressive feeling on earth.

Your point? The OP was in general. I'm still not seeing a valid argument against homosexuality when one suspends their dogmatic views.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If anything directly opposes homosexuality, it's heterosexuality. They equal and opposing forces, you might say.

Makes no sense.....

Where does bisexuality fall in your equation?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Makes no sense.....

Where does bisexuality fall in your equation?

Somewhere between homo and hetero, I imagine. But can human sexuality be measured with just a straight line bewtween two opposites? I don't know. I have a feeling it's ridiculously more complex than that.

 

[jarofthoughts]

No, heterosexuality is in harmony with itself. I've never heard of a straight man emotionally devastated by his attraction to women warring inside his head with his attraction to women.

Been there. Done that.

 

[Autodidact]

Your position makes sense if there is no God. Mine makes sense if there is.

Pretty much. So rather than just state that atheists are missing the boat, what you mean is, "If God exists, and is the God I believe in, and I'm interpreting His rules correctly, then atheists are missing the boat," right?

 

[Autodidact]

Ie the simple physics test of trying to push two north sides against eachother or two south sides for that matter..... You can do it but must use alot of force and nature does not like it at all.

Try sending negative electrons to a negative pole, does not work..

How much common sense does it take to know that homosexuality is against the laws of this universe? Not much. Negative-positive-Yin-Yang - the natural way, follow the nature.

However, people are free to do what they want while they live as human beings here. I do not condemn them at all.

From a higher perspective one can see that such acts accumulate karma(debts).

And karma is very painful to pay off in afterlife I believe.

:biglaugh: Thanks, I should frubal you. You made my day. Wait, I need to wipe off my monitor. That was a good one!

So what exactly do you think happens when two women are physically intimate? One of them ends up on the other side of the room?

I love RF, sometimes just for the laughs.

 

[Autodidact]

In general,I support homosexuality---without being a gay---but I'm against it when the couple are thinking about adopting children---cause I think that there's indeed somewhere a law that permits that...
People are not ready for homosexuality so the children will be judged fir something that is not their decision..

And why do you think gay people should not adopt children, pray tell? You think it's better for them to languish in foster care than be cared for by a family that wants them?

 

[Autodidact]

OFten the atheist takes the purely scientific view which is largely utilitaarian. Biologically homosexuality has no function in the life cycle so it is basicly a waste of societies energies. Of course this mechanical view of sex isn't much fun. Communistic atheism in the former Soviet Union tended to reflect those views with the most dour repressive feeling on earth. come to think of it the birthrate went down as well even though the USSR made it a public duty to procreate. Take the fun out of sex and a happy future from prospective children and a low birth rate is the result.

Yeah, atheists have a lousy sex life. Say what? You guys are cracking me up.

 

[Autodidact]

No, heterosexuality is in harmony with itself. I've never heard of a straight man emotionally devastated by his attraction to women warring inside his head with his attraction to women.

Now think really hard Pete. Can you take a wild guess as to why that might be?

 

[Autodidact]

I just want to thank this whole thread for brightening my day with laughter. Now if bobhikes would just stroll in, my day would be complete.