Iliad/Odyssey Contradictions

[Jayhawker Soule]

Bring 'em on!

 

[Muffled]

Bring 'em on!

The problem is that these are works of fiction. Most likely the stories are based on actual historical events but it is not easy to figure out which is fact and which is fiction.

 

[Caladan]

The problem is that these are works of fiction. Most likely the stories are based on actual historical events but it is not easy to figure out which is fact and which is fiction.

Oh boy. There is a sense of irony here.

 

[fantome profane]

The problem is that these are works of fiction. Most likely the stories are based on actual historical events but it is not easy to figure out which is fact and which is fiction.

Very well said.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Oh boy. There is a sense of irony here.

Yes ...

 

[Willamena]

The Illiad describes the Trojan War but leaves off the two most significant events portrayed in the other story: The Trojan Horse, and Achilles death.

Obviously those must be the only two truly fictional events, as they were not covered by both sources.


Edit: I think I got that backwards, but don't have time to look it up.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The problem is that these are works of fiction. Most likely the stories are based on actual historical events but it is not easy to figure out which is fact and which is fiction.

Why is the Odyssey that, but not the Bible?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm not sure hat either are mentioned by Josephus.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

I'm not sure hat either are mentioned by Josephus.

I'm pretty sure the Odyssey was written based on Mark, and the author of the Iliad used Batrachomyomachia

 

[Quintessence]

Why is the Odyssey that, but not the Bible?

To some people, it is. Mythology is mythology.

In general, Pagans seem to be an awful lot more comfortable with the idea of contradictory narratives. Perhaps because they have less of a perchance for taking their stories as literal truth. Several of the Greek gods have wildly different origin stories. Each tells us something about the essence of that god; the point isn't to debate which one is literally true or some such nonsense. Though I suppose you can debate such things, I do not waste my time with it. It's a story; mythology. It's not some scientific/factual description of reality.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Troy was actually in England, not Turkey.

Where Troy Once Stood

The Author, Professor Finley, Professor Damste, Ernst Gideon and De Grave and Cailleux all realised long ago there was a substantial weight of evidence making it clear that Troy and the Trojan War did not occur in Greece and Turkey (as we know it today), but some where else.

The Author explains the ancient writings that tell us a great many straight forward facts relating to Troy and the Trojan War which show it was not located in the Greek and Turkish Mediterranean, a few of these are:

* The Achaeans built 1186 ships for their attack on Troy, they could have travelled the short distance overland far quicker and cheaper if Troy really had been in the Turkish setting.
* Odysseus claimed to have got home by travelling as a passenger on a ship going from Crete to Sidon (present day Saïda in Lebanon), but that is the opposite direction he needed to go in the Mediterranean setting.
* Agamemnon tells us it took him a full month to sail from his kingdom Argos to Ithaca, we know the trip takes less than 24 hours in the Mediterranean setting.
* The mythical location for Troy in Turkey is far too small to accommodate the invading army of about 100,000 men and the long pursuits in horse-drawn chariots.
* The extensively travelled Greek geographer Strabo who lived 2000 years ago (1200 years after the Trojan War) believed that some of the ports of call in the Odyssey should be found in the Atlantic because of the mention of tides that do not really exist in the Mediterranean.

The Author clearly shows that not one of forty characteristics of the City of Troy and the Trojan War plain fit the Mediterranean setting, but they all fit the plains near Cambridge and the Gog Magog Hills, where more than 12 rivers mentioned in Trojan War writings (Iliad) can still be recognised and many hundreds of bronze weapons have been found and dated to the time (c.1200 BC)

The battlefield is clearly reconstructed in great detail with the aid of detailed maps, readers can follow the military action in the field, the defensive dikes and the canal built to protect the Achaean camp can still be seen today.

The author also unravels the Odyssey which in part is an oral maritime chart of the Atlantic, the Channel and the North Sea for Celtic sailors, it was also to pass on all kinds of other knowledge when there was no other way because society as a whole was illiterate.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Troy was actually in England, not Turkey.

Where Troy Once Stood

And Achilles is actually Greek for Arthur, thus cementing the historicity of the Authorian legends.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

And Achilles is actually Greek for Arthur, thus cementing the historicity of the Authorian legends.

Nah, Arthur and Merlin were Sarmatians.

From Scythia to Camelot

This book argues that the core of the Arthurian and Holy Grail legends derives originally from a region known in antiquity as Scythia, that is, the western portion of the great "sea of grass" that stretches from the Altai Mountains to the Hungarian Plain.

Many Arthurian sites (see map 6) have been identified with Scottish locales around the region where the Iazyges were stationed on Hadrian's Wall. For example, the twelve battles of Arthur against the Saxons are said to have taken place at: (1) the "mouth of the river called Glein," (2-5) "on another river,... called Dubglas ... in the region of Linnuis," (6) "on a river. . . called Bassas," (7) "in the wood of Celidon" (Cat Coit Celidon), (8) at "Castle Guinnion," (9) at "the city of the Legion" (probably Chester or York), (10) on "the shore of the river . . . called Tribruit," (11) "on the mountain . . . called Agned," and (12) at "Mount Badon." The Annales Cambriae (960-980) give the date for the Battle of Badon as 518; however, this conflicts with testimony from Gildas, who lived at a time when witnesses to the battle were still living and who gives the date for this battle as ca. 495.

You need to keep up with your fringe science.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

You need to keep up with your fringe science.

Woops! My bad. It's hard to follow which theory connects which fiction with which sometimes.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Wasn't aware these stories were considered scripture

 

[Reptillian]

Wasn't aware these stories were considered scripture

I think they're like the ancient greek equivalent of Dante's "Divine Comedy" and Milton's "Paradise Lost". Neither Dante nor Milton are meant to be scripture, but their literary works have influenced popular culture and beliefs regarding Hell, Heaven, angels, and The Devil's origin.

 

[Jacksnyte]

I think they're like the ancient greek equivalent of Dante's "Divine Comedy" and Milton's "Paradise Lost". Neither Dante nor Milton are meant to be scripture, but their literary works have influenced popular culture and beliefs regarding Hell, Heaven, angels, and The Devil's origin.

Ah, I see. Makes sense

 

[gnostic]

The Illiad describes the Trojan War but leaves off the two most significant events portrayed in the other story: The Trojan Horse, and Achilles death.

Obviously those must be the only two truly fictional events, as they were not covered by both sources.


Edit: I think I got that backwards, but don't have time to look it up.

The Odyssey do allude to the Trojan Horse, and Odysseus does meet up with Achilles and Aias (at least their shades) in Hades, so obviously they die at Troy. In The Iliad, Achilles knew he would die, never to return home.

The Iliad doesn't tell the whole story of the Trojan War, and it was never meant to.

 

[Quagmire]

The Illiad describes the Trojan War but leaves off the two most significant events portrayed in the other story: The Trojan Horse, and Achilles death.

Obviously those must be the only two truly fictional events, as they were not covered by both sources.


Edit: I think I got that backwards, but don't have time to look it up.

Everybody knows the Trojan Horse was added later by Virgil in order to control the poor, ignorant Roman peasants.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Contradictions?