I'm a Hindu that believes in Jesus

[Jainarayan]

That ^ above ^ definition of faith is defined as: credulity ( meaning blind faith )

There's nothing wrong with blind faith if it works for you, makes you a better person, doesn't lead you astray, and so on. Not everything needs to be proven, nor should it be. Everyone tries (needs?) to prove to themselves and everyone else their religion is the right one. I have no way of proving (or disproving) my religion to myself or anyone else. Nor for that matter do I need to. I'm fine with it as it is, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

 

[Jainarayan]

Whereas the Bible names real people and real places.

Places, yes; people, not likely. The possible exception is Pontius Pilate.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There's nothing wrong with blind faith if it works for you, makes you a better person, doesn't lead you astray, and so on. Not everything needs to be proven, nor should it be. Everyone tries (needs?) to prove to themselves and everyone else their religion is the right one. I have no way of proving (or disproving) my religion to myself or anyone else. Nor for that matter do I need to. I'm fine with it as it is, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

Blind faith (credulity) did Not work for Jesus. He logically reasoned on Scripture on which to base his beliefs.
Jesus, to me, was fine with his beliefs regardless of what anyone else would think - Matthew 10:22

Absolutely, what other reason would a person belong to a faith (belief) unless they believed it was the right one.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Places, yes; people, not likely. The possible exception is Pontius Pilate.

Weren't all of the people mentioned at Luke 3 real historical people.

 

[Jainarayan]

Blind faith (credulity) did Not work for Jesus. He logically reasoned on Scripture on which to base his beliefs.
Jesus, to me, was fine with his beliefs regardless of what anyone else would think - Matthew 10:22

We're not talking about what Jesus believed, are we?

Absolutely, what other reason would a person belong to a faith (belief) unless they believed it was the right one.

My point exactly. But if you need proof or evidence, it's not showing much faith is it? I'm not completely convinced Vishnu and Shiva are a couple of blue dudes with 4 arms each, riding a giant eagle and a giant bull, respectively. That's iconography to indicate their powers and attributes. If you believe in Yahweh or Allah, he/they have no form at all. You believe in them without physical proof.

 

[Jainarayan]

Weren't all of the people mentioned at Luke 3 real historical people.

OK, I'll give you Tiberius, Pilate, Herod and the other tetrarchs. As far as the others, there's no proof one way or another they did or did not exist as historical persons. If there are no sources outside the NT for Jesus's existence, where do we find proof for John the Baptist? Where? Only in one's faith that he existed. Again, why is it so necessary to prove these people existed? Isn't what they taught and stood for enough? I should think so.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

OK, I'll give you Tiberius, Pilate, Herod and the other tetrarchs. As far as the others, there's no proof one way or another they did or did not exist as historical persons. If there are no sources outside the NT for Jesus's existence, where do we find proof for John the Baptist? Where? Only in one's faith that he existed. Again, why is it so necessary to prove these people existed? Isn't what they taught and stood for enough? I should think so.

Agree, what they 'taught and stood for' would be enough.
Aren't there sources for the existence for even some of those mentioned in the old Hebrew Scriptures.

As far as John the Baptizer, what Luke wrote at Luke 3:1-2 gives a detailed-and-precise list which makes it possible to establish that the year of God's declaration to John was in the year 29.

There was a man named Tacitus considered to be a great historian.
Tacitus wrote that Nero accused Christians and Christus, the founder of the name Christian had undergone the death penalty.... Annals XV,44

Roman historian Suetonius wrote Chrestus (Christus ) made disturbances.
Although wrongly accusing Jesus, Suetonius did Not doubt Jesus existence.- The Deified Claudius XXV,4

Pliny the Younger wrote Trajan about how to deal with the Christians in connection to cursed Christ - Pliny -Letters, Book X,XCVI

The Babylonian Talmud... Munich Codex says on Passover Yeshu (Jesus ) was hanged. Acts of the Apostles 5:30

Historian Flavius Josephus mentions James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ.
- Jewish Antiquities XX,200

Albert Einstein concluded that No one can read the gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus.

Years ago, I heard that Napoleon realized that while he was present that he could have an effect on those under him, and wondered how Jesus, who is Not seen, could have an effect on others without being present.

To me, there are people mentioned in history books, yet information about them is not known.
That does Not make them as being myths, but just that there is No further information about them.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

We're not talking about what Jesus believed, are we?
My point exactly. But if you need proof or evidence, it's not showing much faith is it? I'm not completely convinced Vishnu and Shiva are a couple of blue dudes with 4 arms each, riding a giant eagle and a giant bull, respectively. That's iconography to indicate their powers and attributes. If you believe in Yahweh or Allah, he/they have no form at all. You believe in them without physical proof.

Right, we are Not talking about what Jesus' believed, but rather why Jesus believed what the believed.
Jesus did Not get his teaching, his faith, out of thin air, but based his faith on the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Scripture does Not give us details about God's form, but God is considered as a: person - Hebrews 9:24
God as a heavenly person who even has a specific heavenly home location according to 1 Kings 8:49.
Jesus had a heavenly spirit body before God sent the pre-human Jesus to earth.

As far as faith, if you were driving to a distant point to keep an appointment with someone you knew well,
then you would have ' faith ' that person would be there when you arrived at your destination.
So, detailed knowledge of a person could help you build faith in that person as being a real person.

 

[Jainarayan]

There was a man named Tacitus considered to be a great historian.
Tacitus wrote that Nero accused Christians and Christus, the founder of the name Christian had undergone the death penalty.... Annals XV,44

Roman historian Suetonius wrote Chrestus (Christus ) made disturbances.
Although wrongly accusing Jesus, Suetonius did Not doubt Jesus existence.- The Deified Claudius XXV,4

Pliny the Younger wrote Trajan about how to deal with the Christians in connection to cursed Christ - Pliny -Letters, Book X,XCVI

The Babylonian Talmud... Munich Codex says on Passover Yeshu (Jesus ) was hanged. Acts of the Apostles 5:30

Historian Flavius Josephus mentions James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ.
- Jewish Antiquities XX,200

That was all 70-100 years after the time of Jesus. It was all hearsay. That doesn't mean it's myth either. If you believe it, you believe it. I have no proof the Kurukshetra War on the Mahābhārata took place either, but proof isn't important. What the story teaches is.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That was all 70-100 years after the time of Jesus. It was all hearsay. That doesn't mean it's myth either. If you believe it, you believe it. I have no proof the Kurukshetra War on the Mahābhārata took place either, but proof isn't important. What the story teaches is.

How did you conclude 70-100 years after Jesus:
Tacitus is about '56' to 120
Suetonius is about '69' to 122
Pliny is about '61' to 113
Josehpus is about '37' to 100
True, they are all written after Jesus' death, but '30 plus or minus years' after Jesus' death is under 100 years.

Agree, what the story teaches is what is important:
The main theme of Jesus' teaching was about the good news (gospel) about God's kingdom government - Luke 4:43
God's kingdom is the solution to mankind's affairs - Daniel 2:44

 

[Jainarayan]

How did you conclude 70-100 years after Jesus:

Nice ballpark number. It could just as easily have been 65-130. The point is that none of those people met Jesus. Or met anyone who met Jesus. Or met his 2nd cousin on his mother's side. By their times he was the equivalent of our Paul Bunyan.

The main theme of Jesus' teaching was about the good news (gospel) about God's kingdom government - Luke 4:43
God's kingdom is the solution to mankind's affairs - Daniel 2:44

Yes, which is something many saints, prophets, god-(wo)men, sages have taught for millennia.

 

[Reggie Miller]

That's circular reasoning.



Definition of FAITH

That's not circular reasoning at all. You expect a spiritual person to ignore what other spiritual people who were there wrote down and accept the secular view from people who weren't there? That's not circular, that's stupid.

Hmm... I prefer Webster's... and you left out the entire definition. Yeah, I noticed.


faith
fāTH/
noun

1. 1.
   complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
   "this restores one's faith in politicians"
   synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction; More
   
   
2. 2.
   strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
   synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination, (religious) persuasion, (religious) belief, ideology, creed, teaching, doctrine
   "she gave her life for her faith"

 

[Reggie Miller]

That ^ above ^ definition of faith is defined as: credulity ( meaning blind faith )

The faith Jesus had was based on his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Even by age 12 Jesus was already well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written...." meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus explained, expounded, and fullfilled the old Hebrews Scriptures thus Christians put confidence in Jesus' teachings. What was foretold for the past came to pass, so what is foretold for the future we can have faith based on Scripture, or have confidence in Jesus' teachings which will also come to pass.
Mankind's history has proven the words of Ecclesiastes 8:9 to be true that man has dominated man to man's hurt or to his injury. Mankind can Not establish Peace on Earth, but Jesus, as Prince of Peace, to me, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill. True, we have Not yet seen a beautiful paradisical Earth, but by the beautiful word pictures as found in Scripture (Isaiah 35) we can see that bright future ahead of us as Jesus' promised the humble meek will inherit the Earth - Matthew 5:5

Yeah, he kind of tried to slip the wrong definition in and left out the jist of it, hoping we were too stupid to notice. Wrong.

 

[Jainarayan]

2.
strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

Booyah!!!

 

[Reggie Miller]

Booyah!!!

Hardly. Spiritual apprehension rather than proof is a far cry from what you had said. What you had said is that faith is blind. Not hardly.

Can you prove anything?

 

[Jainarayan]

What you had said is that faith is blind. Not hardly

I said there's nothing wrong with blind faith if it works for you, makes you a better person and doesn't lead you astray.

And I'm still waiting for the list of names of all those Jews who will show us where Jesus died, was buried and rose from the dead.

 

[Reggie Miller]

I said there's nothing wrong with blind faith if it works for you, makes you a better person and doesn't lead you astray.

And I'm still waiting for the list of names of all those Jews who will show us where Jesus died, was buried and rose from the dead.

I don't know their names. If you really want to know their names you will have to go there and ask them. And I didn't say they would show you where He rose from the dead because they don't believe in the resurrection. They can and will show you where He was crucified and where He was buried but you will have to go to Jerusalem and ask them yourself.

 

[ajay0]

Well, you're wrong. The canon was decided my men filled with the Holy Spirit. The 66 books of the Bible are genuine, infallible and absolutely correct. If you don't think so, please pick one and show me that it is not truth.

I doubt whether the Romans who compiled and editted the christian scriptures were filled with the Holy Spirit, after a few centuries of persecuting the Christians brutally .

It is not a matter of showing which is incorrect, the issue is that major important portions of the scriptures have been deleted , and hence the bible is more of an incomplete work, imo , which can lead to confusion and error.

I had read the bible at 16, and though I was charmed by the sweetness of Jesus's character, I could not make much sense or comprehension of the teachings.

It was after going through the teachings of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism and Sufism and works of enlightened masters, that I could make sense of Christianity or Christ's teachings.

Hence the reason why I feel that the original scriptures and teachings of Christ were tampered with by the romans due to unscrupulous editing, making it illogical and incomprehensible.

Christianity, at present, imho, is more of a jigsaw puzzle with its pieces missing. A study of the world religions can help put in the parts together , making it comprehensible and rational.

 

[Reggie Miller]

I doubt whether the Romans who compiled and editted the christian scriptures were filled with the Holy Spirit, after a few centuries of persecuting the Christians brutally .

It is not a matter of showing which is incorrect, the issue is that major important portions of the scriptures have been deleted , and hence the bible is more of an incomplete work, imo , which can lead to confusion and error.

I had read the bible at 16, and though I was charmed by the sweetness of Jesus's character, I could not make much sense or comprehension of the teachings.

It was after going through the teachings of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism and Sufism and works of enlightened masters, that I could make sense of Christianity or Christ's teachings.

Hence the reason why I feel that the original scriptures and teachings of Christ were tampered with by the romans due to unscrupulous editing, making it illogical and incomprehensible.

Christianity, at present, imho, is more of a jigsaw puzzle with its pieces missing. A study of the world religions can help put in the parts together , making it comprehensible and rational.

Opinionated nonsense.

 

[ajay0]

Opinionated nonsense.

I have stated honestly my own experiences with respect to Christianity, not just mere opinions or figments of imagination.

If it can help anyone over here, I would say then my time over here would have been well spent.