Im Coming OUT! I want RF to know!

[Ori]

also, lets not forget that the majority of fundamentalist Christians consider me not to be one anyway...because i do not feel the bible is innerant.

It sounds like you've got your mind in the right place, good luck.

 

[Hope]

Xtians dont rely on a building, this is the most proactive part of my new religion, Christians talk all the time about how the Church doesnt have walls etc etc, yet they still sit in between them on sundays and rarely feed the poor next door. Xtianity is a religion of Action and Love.

I agree that the Church today is in sad, sad shape, and it breaks my heart. But despite all my pessimism, I have been fortunate enough to have met believers who fit the "Action and Love" part of the faith. They are out there!

My point of view, though, is that it's all about Christ. Not other "Christians" (many call themselves Christians when they have no right to). No matter how screwed up some of His followers are, He remains faithful and true, and I can always call myself a Christian as long as He is Who He is. And I expect that to be for eternity, so I think I'm safe.

 

[Hema]

My point of view, though, is that it's all about Christ. Not other "Christians" (many call themselves Christians when they have no right to). No matter how screwed up some of His followers are, He remains faithful and true...

I think that's what I was trying to say before.
Don't let a few bad apples ruin a good thing.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

but the way the world sees Christianity, does not line up with me and who i am--it is a disservice to non believers that arent willing to have a conversation with me because they know that that guy is a Christian Minister, he must be like all Christian ministers and is gonna tell me to turn from my wicked ways and repent.

This has never happened to me.

Most RF readers know that one of the first items of 'small talk' in America include discussion of profession. It's not like that in other countries, but here a common question among strangers is "so, what do you do?..."

I have to tell people that I am a Christian minister or a seminarian...

The failings of Christian leaders/followers only serve to point people to the cross, the message of Christianity: that God will redeem this malfunctioning world and save the 'least of these,' which is obviously his church.

 

[RevOxley_501]

I thought you were going to say that you're gay!

i was going for that effect, just for fun---got you guys to click on it HEHE...

Hmm...

I don't think there's anything wrong with religion itself. Some bad practioners just tend to give it a bad name e.g. what Osama Bin Laden has done to Islam...he has formed a negative stereotype of Islam that isn't true. If you really want to be Christian; if in your heart you are Christian, then it is part of you. Maybe you can consider worshipping at home.

your right the the OBL analogy definately, i would say Jerry Fallwell is the equivelant to OBL

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

Outside forces should never determine your belief, either you believe in what you believe or not from what you see to be true overall. I'd say ask yourself what you truly believe, don't let your anger, pride, etc. get in the way of your thinking and go from there. I don't think anyone ever said you had to be part of a congregation or church association etc. to believe in god or jesus, just a belief in your heart and a walking of the talk. I'm not trying to send you back to the "fold" but if you believe something in your heart, don't let others deny you that unless it is found to be untrue, if not then so be it.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I wish you best wishes for your recent turn at the fork in the road. Sometimes, our spiritual journey smacks us in the head every now and then in order for us to open our eyes.



I'm definitely biased as a Buddhist, but any religion can and should be held with skepticism, including my own. It must be scrutinized and put to the test, and should never be taken at someone else's word. Blind faith only leads blind people, IMHO. The Buddha always tells us, his own followers, to NEVER simply accept what he is teaching. Be skeptics, and practice his teachings as a hypothesis, and see where it leads you.




I guess this is only a good thing if you truly feel liberated after announcing your decision. Is this the case? Or do you still feel bitter or burdened in any way? It seems that you feel awfully bitter by your posts, but I certainly don't want to assume anything. :flower:



It also is really none of my business, but I'm a weirdo. So, my apologies.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[RevOxley_501]

I wish you best wishes for your recent turn at the fork in the road. Sometimes, our spiritual journey smacks us in the head every now and then in order for us to open our eyes.

very true

I'm definitely biased as a Buddhist, but any religion can and should be held with skepticism, including my own. It must be scrutinized and put to the test, and should never be taken at someone else's word. Blind faith only leads blind people, IMHO. The Buddha always tells us, his own followers, to NEVER simply accept what he is teaching. Be skeptics, and practice his teachings as a hypothesis, and see where it leads you.

Blind Faith truly does lead to blind people---i like that

I guess this is only a good thing if you truly feel liberated after announcing your decision. Is this the case? Or do you still feel bitter or burdened in any way? It seems that you feel awfully bitter by your posts, but I certainly don't want to assume anything. :flower:

I do feel liberated, but yes, there is alot of resentment and bitterness---its been rough and i have been belittled and ridiculed alot by self-righteous individuals, certain parts of my family have been berrating me with letters and bible thumping---its just been really difficult and has caused me alot of pain. I normally dont hold on to pain like this, but its hurt me in a very personal and deep way, it hurts me down to my identity, i feel like i dont know who i am because of this, because of the way many Christians have treated me---so you detect that correctly

 

[Paladin]

very true





Blind Faith truly does lead to blind people---i like that




I do feel liberated, but yes, there is alot of resentment and bitterness---its been rough and i have been belittled and ridiculed alot by self-righteous individuals, certain parts of my family have been berrating me with letters and bible thumping---its just been really difficult and has caused me alot of pain. I normally dont hold on to pain like this, but its hurt me in a very personal and deep way, it hurts me down to my identity, i feel like i dont know who i am because of this, because of the way many Christians have treated me---so you detect that correctly

I have heard it said, that our belief that others can really hurt us is the measure of our spiritual growth. When people attack us, do they really see "us" or are they attacking an idea of us? Aren't they really jumping on an effigy, a mere projected image? And what is the motivation for them but their own inward fears projected onto this image they think is you?
Things like this keep me up nights thinking

Peace
Mark

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I do feel liberated, but yes, there is alot of resentment and bitterness---its been rough and i have been belittled and ridiculed alot by self-righteous individuals, certain parts of my family have been berrating me with letters and bible thumping---its just been really difficult and has caused me alot of pain. I normally dont hold on to pain like this, but its hurt me in a very personal and deep way, it hurts me down to my identity, i feel like i dont know who i am because of this, because of the way many Christians have treated me---so you detect that correctly

I'm very sorry, then, to reopen any wounds you might feel. I do not want to probe simply in vain. I guess you can say that I've been in your shoes, with the threats and the shunning from friends and family. I have even been spit on by one in a Bible study group years ago. The loss of a community that one has grown up in can shatter even the most confident of people.



Here's the wonderful thing, Rev. There are so many self-proclaimed Christians out and around us who do not spit or spite at folks of different beliefs. I can see that you have done your homework and are actively seeking a community that is like-minded with your beliefs.


Now..........



I'm going to very gently open up a whole new can of worms here (uh-oh, LOL). For those who have hurt you in the past, do you have it in you to forgive them, to love them, and to even help them when they are in need?



Blast the whole waiting 24-hour karma-giving rule thingie here. For now, I'll just give you one of these:



:hug:



Peace,
Mystic

 

[doppelganger]

I do feel liberated, but yes, there is alot of resentment and bitterness---its been rough and i have been belittled and ridiculed alot by self-righteous individuals, certain parts of my family have been berrating me with letters and bible thumping---its just been really difficult and has caused me alot of pain.

I have had a similar experience. The pain subsided eventually. But being honest with myself about what the Gospel meant to me was well worth it - as I think you know, too.

That rejection was a crucial part of my journey.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I have heard it said, that our belief that others can really hurt us is the measure of our spiritual growth. When people attack us, do they really see "us" or are they attacking an idea of us? Aren't they really jumping on an effigy, a mere projected image? And what is the motivation for them but their own inward fears projected onto this image they think is you?
Things like this keep me up nights thinking

Peace
Mark

A wise and compassionate observation, my friend. Now get some sleep.



Peace,
Mystic

 

[RevOxley_501]

I'm very sorry, then, to reopen any wounds you might feel. I do not want to probe simply in vain. I guess you can say that I've been in your shoes, with the threats and the shunning from friends and family. I have even been spit on by one in a Bible study group years ago. The loss of a community that one has grown up in can shatter even the most confident of people.

you havent opened anything, it was reopened a week or so ago when my uncle sent me a letter (im gonna post it in my journal soon)...

I'm going to very gently open up a whole new can of worms here (uh-oh, LOL). For those who have hurt you in the past, do you have it in you to forgive them, to love them, and to even help them when they are in need?

I do have it in me to forgive them, and i have, however i cant stand the idea of someone having it in their head that I am some lost soul heathen...it grinds at me that despite having my forgiveness, they still have this thought of me---that just hurts me...it makes me feel sorry for all non-christians for the way people treat them so often.i love them and i would be willing to help them if they needed it, even though i know by their actions that they refuse to help me in my time of need (i have needed help for a couple years now and they have actively refused to provide it).

Blast the whole waiting 24-hour karma-giving rule thingie here. For now, I'll just give you one of these:



:hug:



Peace,
Mystic

thanks

 

[lunamoth]

I do have it in me to forgive them, and i have, however i cant stand the idea of someone having it in their head that I am some lost soul heathen...it grinds at me that despite having my forgiveness, they still have this thought of me---that just hurts me...it makes me feel sorry for all non-christians for the way people treat them so often.i love them and i would be willing to help them if they needed it, even though i know by their actions that they refuse to help me in my time of need (i have needed help for a couple years now and they have actively refused to provide it).

Hi Rev, I hear you. Many heartfelt posts in this thread. I understand the above...it's hard to live with that judgement from others...we just want to get out from under it...let it go. Anyway, I don't have much to add that has not already been said. Best wishes and thank you for sharing this transformation with us. luna

 

[Scuba Pete]

i guess it boils down to definitions then, to many Christian means a very bad thing that gets to go to heaven when you dont! I will remove myself from that, because i am not a Bad person, im not Good but you know what im saying, and i do not fit the mold of Christian---saying i am a Christian is lying based on the standard definition . Look at any Christian Apologetics Research Ministry (hint) website to see that guys like me are "relativists" whom are corrupting "Gods word"

I don't worry about what men call me. I don't care about the definition men give for being "Christian". Most miss the point about unconditional love: "They will know you are my disciples by the love you have for one another."

As far as the Biblical definition goes, extremeists who condemn others are the anti-Christ. They only succeed in condemning themselves as they do this.

 

[des]

Oh boy, oh boy!!! (You know I might have written or said that expression about twice in my life and two times in both days) But I surely identify with a lot of what has been said.

The term Christian and Christianity has been totally and entirely adultered and defiled lately by the likes of the Pat Robertsons, Left Behind writer, GWB, etc etc etc. The leave 'em behind, we have "it" and you don't got "it", superiority complex "church". The Bible and every single bonido sentence is God-written and yes, we are really truly 6000 or is it 10,000 years old as a species, that arose out of thin air.

Of course I have never really been into this whole thing. And perhaps for many hundreds of years (and perhaps longer if you think of the varieties of Christian worship esp. way back when or Jesus himself) lots of others didn't either. But this is what everyone thinks of, thanks to concerted media inattention-- or is it propaganda, The Culture War, liberal drift, conservative power, the erosion of church-state separation, or whatever else one can blame, etc. etc. etc.

And, I, have changed as well. I don't know a lot of times. I love my church community, but a lot fo times it is the community itself that I value a lot more than anything-- and it is a pretty caring community at that. But to be honest a lot of traditional worship leaves me cold.And the doctrine--what doctrine there is in UCC even-- leaves me colder. There is much i see in the comtemplative tradition, but I don't really see myself as an Orthodox or perhaps a Buddhist either, as much as I value many of those teachings. But very little of that survives intact in the Protestant tradition, or maybe even the whole West. I think it would be painful to separate from this as well. I don't know if you were as attached as I am.

BTW, Xian is pretty clear to me. We do write merry Xmas for instance.
However, not sure that would apply to me in my own journey.

Since right now I don't believe in intercessory prayer, I'll just think good thoughts. I care for you Rev, and I don't know ya. ;-)

--des
--des

 

[kiwimac]

This is why I identify as Zoroastrian. I have spent over 30 years of my life in Christianity, I have doctoral degrees in religious Studies and theology, I am an ordained priest and I am TIRED, heartily tired of being lumped in with those Christians who seem to rejoice in being offensive, ignorant and judgemental (and yes, I do indeed see the irony there.)

kiwimac

 

[Paladin]

I don't know if anyone else has read this:

Why Christianity Must Change or Die
by Bishop John Shelby Spong

So far it seems to fit in with this thread quite nicely but I just started it. Anyone else read it?

Peace

Mark

 

[RevOxley_501]

I don't know if anyone else has read this:

Why Christianity Must Change or Die
by Bishop John Shelby Spong

So far it seems to fit in with this thread quite nicely but I just started it. Anyone else read it?

Peace

Mark

havent read it, but it sounds like a quote from me lol. i have said that many times


lets just say, Christianity Evolved is Xtianity

 

[doppelganger]

I don't know if anyone else has read this:

Why Christianity Must Change or Die
by Bishop John Shelby Spong

So far it seems to fit in with this thread quite nicely but I just started it. Anyone else read it?

Peace

Mark

I've read it. It's the beginning of an idea he finishes in A New Christianity For A New World, so I'd recommend that one as well.