I'm pretty sure there's no god now

[outhouse]

What do you mean by 'rise above' ?

Some people want to be civilized despite their animal status.

Either there is no difference between us, or there is

Yes many people mirror the animal kingdom.

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

Wow! That's a coincidence. Why would you expect anything at all?
There's no difference between humans and animals then?
Planet of the apes is not just fiction?

Why wouldn't I expect anything?

Humans are no different from other animals than other animals are different from each other.

We'll we're apes, and we rule the planet.

 

[psychoslice]

Yes for me there is no god, but there is that which is beyond god, and that is the pure Source of all there is, I think quantum science can explain that which is beyond god better than any scripture can..

 

[RRex]

Yes for me there is no god, but there is that which is beyond god, and that is the pure Source of all there is, I think quantum science can explain that which is beyond god better than any scripture can..

 

[muhammad_isa]

We'll we're apes, and we rule the planet.

..and that's what you'd expect in a creatorless universe?
Quite a coincidence isn't it, that mankind are the rulers?
I imagine you think that we evolved into 'rulers' from apes .. why's that then?
Why have no other creaatures evolved in the same way?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

..and that's what you'd expect in a creatorless universe?

That's not what they said.

Quite a coincidence isn't it, that mankind are the rulers?

What's coincidental about it?

I imagine you think that we evolved into 'rulers' from apes .. why's that then?

Presumably, because it's what every single piece of available evidence on the subject indicates.

Why have no other creaatures evolved in the same way?

Why would they? Evolution isn't heading in the same direction for all organisms.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why would they? Evolution isn't heading in the same direction for all organisms.

Clearly not .. but I repeat .. a bit of a coincidence, isn't it, that we rule the planet, and there are no other creatures who even come near?
You said why would they .. why would we!?

It certainly suggests to me that there is intelligence behind our evolution. ie. it's no accident

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Clearly not .. but I repeat .. a bit of a coincidence, isn't it, that we rule the planet, and there are no other creatures who even come near?

I asked earlier, what's coincidental about it?

You said why would they .. why would we!?

Why would we what?

It certainly suggests to me that there is intelligence behind our evolution. ie. it's no accident

Why? You're not making any sense. Your argument seems to be "It's a coincidence that we are the dominant species, and that indicates it's no accident". How does that make any sense? What's so coincidental about us being the dominant species? We just HAPPEN to be the dominant species - so what?

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

..and that's what you'd expect in a creatorless universe?

Not necessarily, and not what I said.

Quite a coincidence isn't it, that mankind are the rulers?

What exactly is coincidental about it? We're not the only group of animals that have ever ruled the planet. Others have in the past, and nearly all of them ruled for a much longer time than we did. And by the looks of it, it might stay that way if we end up killing ourselves.

Lystrosaurus ruled the Early Triassic for 5 million years. We've barely ruled the entire planet for roughly 10,000 years. We barely compare.

I imagine you think that we evolved into 'rulers' from apes .. why's that then?

Intelligence was selected for because it conferred many advantages.

Why have no other creaatures evolved in the same way?

Because then they would be in direct competition with us. We occupy the niche. Animals tend to evolve traits that are unique so they won't be in direct competition with other animals. Why doesn't anything run as fast as the cheetah? Same reason.

If we were to go extinct, there's a fairly good chance another animal will evolve high intelligence.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why would we what?

..What's so coincidental about us being the dominant species? We just HAPPEN to be the dominant species - so what?

'just HAPPEN to be' eh? Not good enough!
If apes can evolve and become more intelligent producing mankind, why not any other creature evolving in the same way?

Personally, if this WAS a 'creatorless' universe, I would be extremely surprised that I could even write this message, and would be thinking "it beggars belief"

 

[ImmortalFlame]

'just HAPPEN to be' eh? Not good enough!

I've asked you repeatedly to explain your question. What's coincidental?

If apes can evolve and become more intelligent producing mankind, why not any other creature evolving in the same way?

Partly because we fill a niche, and partly because evolution isn't all heading in a single direction. What about that is difficult to understand? Why would you expect human-level intelligence to evolve in two separate populations that are independent of each other?

Personally, if this WAS a 'creatorless' universe, I would be extremely surprised that I could even write this message, and would be thinking "it beggars belief"

Why would a creator be required for the existence of intelligence? Your argument is missing some very important logical steps.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why would you expect human-level intelligence to evolve in two separate populations that are independent of each other?

I wouldn't .. I wouldn't even expect ANY intelligence to evolve .. not unless something more than 'blind chance' was involved

Why would a creator be required for the existence of intelligence? Your argument is missing some very important logical steps.

I don't believe that intelligence can derive from 'a void of intelligence' .. I do believe in evolution .. it's a scientific fact.
However, there has to be something to start with to evolve from

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

I wouldn't .. I wouldn't even expect ANY intelligence to evolve .. not unless something more than 'blind chance' was involved

Intelligence is relative. Every animal has a degree of intelligence.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I wouldn't .. I wouldn't even expect ANY intelligence to evolve .. not unless something more than 'blind chance' was involved

Why not? What's so particular about intelligence that it couldn't be an evolved trait?

I don't believe that intelligence can derive from 'a void of intelligence' .. I do believe in evolution .. it's a scientific fact.
However, there has to be something to start with to evolve from

That's not an answer to my question: why is a creator REQUIRED for the existence of intelligence? Sure, it evolved FROM something, but so what? What are you implying?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why not? What's so particular about intelligence that it couldn't be an evolved trait?

I didn't say that it coundn't be an evolved trait..

That's not an answer to my question: why is a creator REQUIRED for the existence of intelligence? Sure, it evolved FROM something, but so what? What are you implying?

OK .. it evolved from SOMETHING ..
What 'something' do you envisage?
I envisage the universe evolving from something intelligent..

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I didn't say that it coundn't be an evolved trait..

You said that you wouldn't expect any intelligence to evolve unless something more than "blind chance" was involved. Why is that?

OK .. it evolved from SOMETHING ..
What 'something' do you envisage?

Well, evidence indicates intelligence evolved as a byproduct of the brain.

I envisage the universe evolving from something intelligent..

What does that have to do with evolution?

 

[muhammad_isa]

You said that you wouldn't expect any intelligence to evolve unless something more than "blind chance" was involved. Why is that?

Because evolution itself is an intelligent concept and needs to have something to evolve FROM..

Well, evidence indicates intelligence evolved as a byproduct of the brain.

.. evolved from what?

I envisage the universe evolving from something intelligent..

What does that have to do with evolution?

It has EVERYTHING to do with your question "why is a creator REQUIRED for the existence of intelligence?" .. hint: creator=something intelligent

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Because evolution itself is an intelligent concept and needs to have something to evolve FROM..

What do you mean by evolution being an "intelligent concept"? Evolution is a natural process. Do you think a natural process cannot account for intelligence?

.. evolved from what?

Most likely early nuclei.

It has EVERYTHING to do with your question "why is a creator REQUIRED for the existence of intelligence?" .. hint: creator=something intelligent

Except "The Universe" has nothing to do with evolution. The Universe may have been farted out by Unicorns, and it wouldn't change a single thing about biological evolution. You're confusing your scientific areas of study.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What do you mean by evolution being an "intelligent concept"? Evolution is a natural process. Do you think a natural process cannot account for intelligence?

"A natural process" does not explain anything .. the word "natural" can be applied to yoghurt and a whole HEAP of things. Where did nature come from? You can't say it evolved and then turn round and say that evolution is a "natural process" .. that's circular reasoning

Most likely early nuclei.

OK .. were these nuclei intelligent in some way?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"A natural process" does not explain anything ..

Neither does calling it an "intelligent concept". It is a process that effects naturally reproducing organic systems, therefore calling it a natural process is perfectly accurate.

the word "natural" can be applied to yoghurt and a whole HEAP of things. Where did nature come from? You can't say it evolved and then turn round and say that evolution is a "natural process" .. that's circular reasoning

I'm not sure you understand what nature or "circular reasoning" means. Nature is a result of physical laws acting together in a particular state - evolution is a process that occurs in natural systems. "Where nature came from" is irrelevant with regards to how this process occurs. You're trying to obfuscate the issue because you are in danger of having your ignorance about evolution exposed.

OK .. were these nuclei intelligent in some way?

No, except in a very rudimentary sense.