I'm pretty sure there's no god now

[AndromedaRXJ]

Yes, I know what software is..
A computer is like a brain with its electrical impulses, and external peripheries such as eyes, ears etc.

You wouldn't expect a computer to function without software, so why do you think that a brain can?

Because the brain is fundamentally different from a computer. Software determines the behavior of the computer without physically changing any components of the computer. But a change in behavior of the brain is always accompanied by a structural change in the brain.

The brain is constantly rewiring it self. It does that because it doesn't rely on software.

Besides, there's nothing non-physical about software. It's just a specific sequence of electrical signals.

 

[Scott C.]

To the Abrahamic theists out there, in your heart of hearts! Why would a god allow stuff like this to happen?! Consider that harshness like this in the wild happens daily! It's a horrible way to die, and it happens daily!

At first I thought you were being felicitous and poking fun at those who say there is no God because of suffering in the world. But as I read below, I think you're serious. Really? No benevolent God because animals prey on one another?

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

At first I thought you were being felicitous and poking fun at those who say there is no God because of suffering in the world. But as I read below, I think you're serious. Really? No benevolent God because animals prey on one another?

Shouldn't be too hard to dispute my reasoning if you find it silly.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What? Do you believe scientists think we started out magically as full formed apes?

You don't expect me to answer that surely..
You didn't answer my question about coming from fish?

As I say, I'm not particularly bothered how we got here .. no .. it's WHY that interests me!

I have a plethora. From eternal inflation, to quantum tunneling, to multiverses, to ... all the current competing models in science..

Great .. do these models tell us whether the universe was created? I would say not..

But I do not need that. For, the Universe did not start..

..and you know that, how?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Because the brain is fundamentally different from a computer. Software determines the behavior of the computer without physically changing any components of the computer. But a change in behavior of the brain is always accompanied by a structural change in the brain.

That's only because the brain is more advanced than our computers .. it doesn't mean that there is no abstract (or spiritual) component

The brain is constantly rewiring it self. It does that because it doesn't rely on software.

That has nothing to do with it .. If you consider memory in a computer, that's effectively doing the same thing..

Besides, there's nothing non-physical about software. It's just a specific sequence of electrical signals.

You are referring to the media its stored on .. it was designed and written and is as abstract as the thinking that produced it.

Anyhow .. it seems to me that you are saying either that 'the brain' is like an embedded device ie. has pre-installed software, or that somehow, 'the laws' of intelligence in an electronic brain (computer) are different from a chemical/electro human brain.

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

That's only because the brain is more advanced than our computers .. it doesn't mean that there is no abstract (or spiritual) component

First of all, abstract and spiritual aren't synonyms. They aren't even remotely the same thing. Second, there's nothing spiritual about a computer. So why think there's anything spiritual about the brain? Third, the brain is only more advanced in some ways. It's definitely more complex. Even still, computers do a lot of things better. Our brains can't perform billions of precise calculations per second.

That has nothing to do with it .. If you consider memory in a computer, that's effectively doing the same thing..

Memory in a brain is just a specific configuration of neurons ready to fire. When they are fired, you get recollection. It's pretty much entirely determined by the structure of the neurons.

In other words, you have a memory because your brain has restructured it self to have that memory.

You are referring to the media its stored on .. it was designed and written and is as abstract as the thinking that produced it.

No, I'm referring to the actual software. The software it self is a set of programs. Programs themselves, physically, are a sequence of electrical signals. Change the sequence and you change the program. Change the program and you alter the software.

Anyhow .. it seems to me that you are saying either that 'the brain' is like an embedded device ie. has pre-installed software, or that somehow, 'the laws' of intelligence in an electronic brain (computer) are different from a chemical/electro human brain.

I've never heard of any "laws of intelligence". But yeah, I'm saying the brain is fundamentally different from a computer. One is rigid and structurally unchanging (unless you change a component yourself) while the other structurally rewires it self.

Besides, you only need software for general purpose computers. i.e. Computers that can do multiple different things. Specialized dedicated computers, like a calculator, are hardwired to do what they do. They can't be programmed or run any software. What they do and how they function corresponds entirely to their physical structure. Same with the brain. The difference with the brain is it can physically restructure it self to a degree.

 

[1AOA1]

Normally, I just consider myself non-religious, and my stance on there being a god is the same as the likes of the Tooth Fairy, leprechauns, ghosts etc... There's a lack of evidence, therefore, I simply have a lack of belief. But now after watching this video, I'm thinking to myself "Nope! No way there can be a god. He's just not there!" because this is just effed up! My stance on god goes from simply being a lack of belief, to pretty much disbelief!

The video is raw footage of crocodiles attacking a zebra. Now we all know predators constantly kill prey in nature, and that in it of it self puts the notion of a benevolent god in question. But this video is so much worse than that! The crocodiles tear it's stomach out while it's still alive! And it walks around for a few moments while it's intestines are hanging out!

Now I already know gory kills like this happen in nature. But actually seeing it is a whole different thing! As much as I like watching nature videos and learning about the wild, I find this video unbearable! And even knowing in advance that the Universe and nature is harsh and very indifferent, I still can barely watch this!

Edit: When I'm mentioning god in this post, by that, I mean a benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient god.

WARNING! GRAPHIC VIDEO!

To the Abrahamic theists out there, in your heart of hearts! Why would a god allow stuff like this to happen?! Consider that harshness like this in the wild happens daily! It's a horrible way to die, and it happens daily!

Try defining God as the holy life, as that is also a part of God.

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

Try defining God as the holy life, as that is also a part of God.

That doesn't really help with anything here.

 

[viole]

You don't expect me to answer that surely..
You didn't answer my question about coming from fish?

Yes, we do come from fish. Apparently.

As I say, I'm not particularly bothered how we got here .. no .. it's WHY that interests me!

Why did that mountain, I see from my window, grew up there in the middle of Switzerland and not in New Jersey?

There is no "because...", it just did. How is enough, looking for whys is usually a waste of time. "Whys" assume a "Because..." or a teleology, or a reason why things are, without any evidence of such things to exist. Questions involving why's tend to beg themselves, most of the time.

But if you like whys... I think it is evident that we look like hairless chimps, which is obvious since we are still apes. For sure chimps and gorillas are much more close to us than any other living being. For instance pigs, or trees, I can tell you how. Can you tell me why?

Great .. do these models tell us whether the universe was created? I would say not..

Of course not. The idea that the universe was created is not found anywhere in science. It is only in the mind of people who believe in god/gods, and have a minimal amount of confirmation bias.

..and you know that, how?

Relativity. Mainly. You mentioned the spacetime continuum. Can you imagine such a thing as being able to begin, change, or die?

Ciao

- viole

 

[muhammad_isa]

There is no "because...", it just did.

Funny that .. my observations in life show that EVERYTHING has a reason..

How is enough, looking for whys is usually a waste of time.

You might be surprised .. I haven't found it a waste of time

Of course not. The idea that the universe was created is not found anywhere in science.

Not in the physical sciences, naturally..

..You mentioned the spacetime continuum. Can you imagine such a thing as being able to begin, change, or die?

Absolutely .. as Einstein is reported to have said: "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

We all have a birth and a death, and so do all physical things .. they are not permanent.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Besides, you only need software for general purpose computers..

That's because the software is already embedded in them. Routers, TV Boxes, you name it .. they all have software in ROM (fixed memory) ..

You claim that the brain is more than 'physical hardware' .. I disagree .. just because it is electro-chemical doesn't change anything.

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

That's because the software is already embedded in them. Routers, TV Boxes, you name it .. they all have software in ROM (fixed memory) ..

Calculators don't.

You claim that the brain is more than 'physical hardware'

I never said that.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I never said that.

Not explicitly, maybe .. but don't you believe that the brain develops in the womb, and shapes into 'the spiritual you' with no external influences? ie. you don't believe in a soul

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

Not explicitly, maybe .. but don't you believe that the brain develops in the womb, and shapes into 'the spiritual you' with no external influences? ie. you don't believe in a soul

I didn't say anything about a soul. I said the brain doesn't run software. Don't put words in my mouth.

Of course the brain has external factors that shape it in the womb. Things like food, oxygen and water are important external factors.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Things like food, oxygen and water are important external factors.

..stating the obvious .. I'm sure you realise that I'm not referring to those!
It's about what makes us an individual, and not a 'mindless robot'

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

..stating the obvious .. I'm sure you realise that I'm not referring to those!

You asked me if the brain develops due to external factors. That was my answer. Food, water and air are external factors.

I honestly can't tell what you're ever talking about. You say one thing and you mean something else. You see people say one thing and you think they mean something else. And quite frankly, right now, you're note even standing by a single point. You're completely rogue in this discussion, where you go from talking about one thing to another.

 

[thevoiceofgod]

Normally, I just consider myself non-religious, and my stance on there being a god is the same as the likes of the Tooth Fairy, leprechauns, ghosts etc... There's a lack of evidence, therefore, I simply have a lack of belief. But now after watching this video, I'm thinking to myself "Nope! No way there can be a god. He's just not there!" because this is just effed up! My stance on god goes from simply being a lack of belief, to pretty much disbelief!

The video is raw footage of crocodiles attacking a zebra. Now we all know predators constantly kill prey in nature, and that in it of it self puts the notion of a benevolent god in question. But this video is so much worse than that! The crocodiles tear it's stomach out while it's still alive! And it walks around for a few moments while it's intestines are hanging out!

Now I already know gory kills like this happen in nature. But actually seeing it is a whole different thing! As much as I like watching nature videos and learning about the wild, I find this video unbearable! And even knowing in advance that the Universe and nature is harsh and very indifferent, I still can barely watch this!

Edit: When I'm mentioning god in this post, by that, I mean a benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient god.

WARNING! GRAPHIC VIDEO!

To the Abrahamic theists out there, in your heart of hearts! Why would a god allow stuff like this to happen?! Consider that harshness like this in the wild happens daily! It's a horrible way to die, and it happens daily!

Anything is possible from the mind of our Creator who spoke His creation into existence as a simulation program called Eternal Life.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I honestly can't tell what you're ever talking about..

OK .. let me try another tack..

How does the electro-chemical brain become aware of existence?
..and when does the brain become aware of existence?

 

[AndromedaRXJ]

OK .. let me try another tack..

How does the electro-chemical brain become aware of existence?
..and when does the brain become aware of existence?

Well now you're asking questions. Are you trying to make a point by asking these questions? Or are you trying to learn about the brain?

I could answer your questions about the brain, but I feel like that'll just lead to another tangent. I'm willing to bet your own default answer to your question is "goddidit". That's what God is in your mind. He's a God of the Gaps. You see the brain, you notice it's complexity, you're so bewildered about it and have such a lack of understanding about it, that the things you don't understand about it, you fill in your holes of ignorance with "goddidit".

As for me answer your question about how the brain, it doesn't matter. Whether I have an answer or not, I don't need to answer you. Because whether I can or can't answer your question, it won't help your point regardless. What YOU need to do is learn to say these three words: "I. Don't. Know!". And you leave it at that. Invoking God through an argument from ignorance fallacy is not an argument.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..What YOU need to do is learn to say these three words: "I. Don't. Know!". And you leave it at that. Invoking God through an argument from ignorance fallacy is not an argument.

Suit yourself .. you obviously have all the answers, even if you don't wish to share them with us