Immaculate birth of Jesus?

[Dogknox20]

They are not "the words of God"..
We do not even know for sure who wrote many texts in the NT.

It is purely your belief, that these authors did not write the words themselves.

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2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

The scriptures are God' holy words! The writers of the scriptures were Inspired by God the Holy Spirit, God kept errors out of this holy book "The Bible"!

 

[muhammad_isa]

..God kept errors out of this holy book "The Bible"!

That is demonstrably untrue.
The 4 Gospels do not agree with each other in many details.
Why is that, if it is inerrant?

 

[Subduction Zone]

.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

The scriptures are God' holy words! The writers of the scriptures were Inspired by God the Holy Spirit, God kept errors out of this holy book "The Bible"!

That does not say or imply that. A verse could be pure fiction and still be of use for teaching . . .

Also people need to define "Scripture" if they are going to use that term. He was clearly not referring to what we call the Bible today. Think about it a little bit.

 

[Dogknox20]

That is demonstrably untrue.
The 4 Gospels do not agree with each other in many details.
Why is that, if it is inerrant?

muhammad_isa the four Gospels were written by four men with different viewpoints! For example, the Gospel of John is called the Gospel of love! You do not know what you are talking about!
The scriptures are the words of God! The Anti-Christ is against God he is anti-Christian, Satan tries all manner of ways to twist God' words to say what he wants God to say thus keeping people from the truth! The primary author is the Holy Ghost, or, as it is commonly expressed, the human authors wrote under the influence of Divine inspiration.

 

[Dogknox20]

That does not say or imply that. A verse could be pure fiction and still be of use for teaching . . .

Also people need to define "Scripture" if they are going to use that term. He was clearly not referring to what we call the Bible today. Think about it a little bit.

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Subduction Zone I hope all is well... Right, you are many words of Jesus are parables! He used Parables to teach... But there is also truths and historical text found in the bible!

 

[Subduction Zone]

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Subduction Zone I hope all is well... Right, you are many words of Jesus are parables! He used Parables to teach... But there is also truths and historical text found in the bible!

There are true things in the Bible. I have never denied that. There are also a lot of false things, and quite a few failures in the Bible. Christians have a hard time admitting that.


But you dodged my question. We were not talking about the Bible. We were talking abut the application of the verse that you used. You should know that it does not apply to the Gospels for instance.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You do not know what you are talking about!

I think that is a bit far fetched..
I believe in Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be with them..
..while you refuse Muhammad as a "false prophet".

The scriptures are the words of God! The Anti-Christ is against God he is anti-Christian..

Funny that..
Most Christians I meet have nothing but respect for Jews,
and yet they do not even BELIEVE in Jesus .. hmmm

satan tries all manner of ways to twist God' words to say what he wants God to say thus keeping people from the truth..

you're not kidding !

The primary author is the Holy Ghost, or, as it is commonly expressed, the human authors wrote under the influence of Divine inspiration.

That is your belief, as I am aware.

I believe in the Bible .. but not in its inerrancy.
However, I do not believe that any text in the NT is purposely written to mislead others .. including the Gospel of John and Paul's writings.
The canon was chosen from a great number of texts/beliefs,
and God knows best why some texts were chosen but not others.

 

[Dogknox20]

I think that is a bit far fetched..
I believe in Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be with them..
..while you refuse Muhammad as a "false prophet".


Funny that..
Most Christians I meet have nothing but respect for Jews,
and yet they do not even BELIEVE in Jesus .. hmmm


you're not kidding !


That is your belief, as I am aware.

I believe in the Bible .. but not in its inerrancy.
However, I do not believe that any text in the NT is purposely written to mislead others .. including the Gospel of John and Paul's writings.
The canon was chosen from a great number of texts/beliefs,
and God knows best why some texts were chosen but not others.

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muhammad_isa Your Muslim scriptures have many errors! Your scriptures also mention "Antichrist". Satan is against Christians no others because other faiths are doing the Work of the Anti-Christ your Muslim religion included! He is Anti-Christ because the Christ is God! Christians are Christ followers they are the Children of God he is our father!

Our God is different than your "Master-Slave" relationship you have with your god! Our God is Love he died for us on the cross out of perfect love for us!
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

You reject the scriptures because you reject a loving father type God!

 

[muhammad_isa]

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Our God is different than your "Master-Slave" relationship you have with your god!

There IS only One God..The Creator and Maintainer of the universe.

..our god .. your god .. that is just a pretense that God in the Qur'an is different.
How so? The OT is in the Christian Bible .. but you don't claim that Jews believe in a "different god" . or do you?

Our God is Love..

Love is an emotion .. are you saying that God is an emotion?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Since it is Christmas coming up, do we have any proof? I use to read on another debate forum I use to belong to that Mary was really raped by a Roman soldier. Is there any proof of that?

Actually "the Immaculate conception" refers to theology that Mary was born without original sin. It is not referring to the story of Jesus' virgin birth.

There are many Yeshuas (Jesuses) mentioned in the Talmud, as it was a common name at that time. None of them describe the Jesus that Christians worship. There is one story of a Yeshua who is the ******* son of a Roman soldier. There is no reason to assume this is about the Jesus of Christians, given the extreme difference in stories.

I realize it is very hard for Christians to swallow that Jesus is so insignificant to Jews that he is not mentioned.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually "the Immaculate conception" refers to theology that Mary was born without original sin. It is not referring to the story of Jesus' virgin birth.

There are many Yeshuas (Jesuses) mentioned in the Talmud, as it was a common name at that time. None of them describe the Jesus that Christians worship. There is one story of a Yeshua who is the ******* son of a Roman soldier. There is no reason to assume this is about the Jesus of Christians, given the extreme difference in stories.

I realize it is very hard for Christians to swallow that Jesus is so insignificant to Jews that he is not mentioned.

Since the immaculate conception is part of the Catholic mythology it is not unreasonable that most Christians do not understand it. In fact the belief that Mary was born without original sin runs contrary to the basic beliefs of most Protestants. In fact it is not even all that old of a concept for the Catholics. It did not fully take shape as dogma until the 1850's:

Immaculate Conception - Wikipedia.

 

[lukethethird]

There IS only One God..The Creator and Maintainer of the universe.

..our god .. your god .. that is just a pretense that God in the Qur'an is different.
How so? The OT is in the Christian Bible .. but you don't claim that Jews believe in a "different god" . or do you?


Love is an emotion .. are you saying that God is an emotion?

God is a figment of the imagination.

 

[pearl]

I realize it is very hard for Christians to swallow that Jesus is so insignificant to Jews that he is not mentioned.

Not at all.

 

[lukethethird]

Since it is Christmas coming up, do we have any proof? I use to read on another debate forum I use to belong to that Mary was really raped by a Roman soldier. Is there any proof of that?

Mary probably had sex with all the Roman soldiers, so tuff to say what's true.

 

[muhammad_isa]

God is a figment of the imagination.

..partly, yes.
Many people have achieved success due to their imagination.

 

[Muffled]

Men wrote the Bible.

I believe those men were inspired by God. I am talking about men who are not inspired by God as not worth crediting.

 

[Muffled]

Mary probably had sex with all the Roman soldiers, so tuff to say what's true.

I do not think that is probable and the text is the only information we have.

 

[Muffled]

There is no evidence for either of the nativity myths and rather strong evidence against them. For example the author of (almost certainly not) Luke messed up very badly on the dating of it. He implies that Mary got knocked up about 4 BCE and then has hm being born in CE.

I believe it isn't Luke who says 4 BC. It is historians and they did not speak to Mary.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe it isn't Luke who says 4 BC. It is historians and they did not speak to Mary.

Have you read Luke? Do you know how the author of Luke (not Luke by the way) put part of his story at 4 BCE? He claimed that the Mary was betrothed to Joseph at that time, 4BCE. He had the angel give the message at that time. Ten years later and Joseph has not married Mary yet.

Meanwhile in Matthew Jesus is already ten years old.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Have you read Luke? Do you know how the author of Luke (not Luke by the way) put part of his story at 4 BCE? He claimed that the Mary was betrothed to Joseph at that time, 4BCE. He had the angel give the message at that time. Ten years later and Joseph has not married Mary yet.

Meanwhile in Matthew Jesus is already ten years old.

It seems likely that somebody made a mistake..
The presence of such mistakes in the Bible, does not mean that it is all fiction..
..in particular, that Jesus was born by the virgin Mary, and had no earthly father.

It is easy for God..
Why would God do that?
..perhaps it draws attention towards His messiah?