In the Beginning.....

[ACEofALLaces]

In the Christian Bible, it starts out, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with the inference being that there was "nothing" before God created it.
Ok, well that brings the question to my mind at least, SINCE God is said to be Himself uncreated and WITHOUT beginning.....just where WAS God BEFORE He created a place for Himself to BE?

 

[74x12]

In the Christian Bible, it starts out, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with the inference being that there was "nothing" before God created it.
Ok, well that brings the question to my mind at least, SINCE God is said to be Himself uncreated and WITHOUT beginning.....just where WAS God BEFORE He created a place for Himself to BE?

That verse doesn't say when the water was made. Remember earth is not planet (capital E) "Earth". It's just "earth" in other words it means the land. The continents and islands. A less confusing translation (for modern readers) would be "In the beginning God created the skies and the land"

So it didn't tell us when the water or the planet was actually made. At least not in the first verse.

But to answer your question. We don't know exactly "where" God is relative to our own universe. I really think that our "universe" is literally nowhere compared to God. It's almost like nothing to God. What I mean is that it doesn't seem to occupy any actual space in the realm that God lives in.

Because it seems the universe is kind of like a computer program or something. God used his "Word" to create and uphold everything. It's the source code. So God obviously dwells outside of this universe. Wherever God is it's beyond this place. All of this emanates from his infinite mind and is upheld by his Word. He may also have certain kinds of gigantic machines to keep functions of this universe in operation. That's speculation though.

What I can say confidently is that he's incomprehensibly powerful and in control of it all and nothing can stop him doing whatever he wants.

 

[F1fan]

In the Christian Bible, it starts out, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with the inference being that there was "nothing" before God created it.
Ok, well that brings the question to my mind at least, SINCE God is said to be Himself uncreated and WITHOUT beginning.....just where WAS God BEFORE He created a place for Himself to BE?

I've read creationists claim that God as the spirit and timeless already existed, and it created the material universe that the spirit animated.

Now, how did the creator make material from nothing? Well that's a question.

 

[F1fan]

That verse doesn't say when the water was made. Remember earth is not planet (capital E) "Earth". It's just "earth" in other words it means the land. The continents and islands. A less confusing translation (for modern readers) would be "In the beginning God created the skies and the land"

So it didn't tell us when the water or the planet was actually made. At least not in the first verse.

But to answer your question. We don't know exactly "where" God is relative to our own universe. I really think that our "universe" is literally nowhere compared to God. It's almost like nothing to God. What I mean is that it doesn't seem to occupy any actual space in the realm that God lives in.

Because it seems the universe is kind of like a computer program or something. God used his "Word" to create and uphold everything. It's the source code. So God obviously dwells outside of this universe. Wherever God is it's beyond this place. All of this emanates from his infinite mind and is upheld by his Word. He may also have certain kinds of gigantic machines to keep functions of this universe in operation. That's speculation though.

It's more likely that it's just stories primitive people invented because they didn't have facts and science.

What I can say confidently is that he's incomprehensibly powerful and in control of it all and nothing can stop him doing whatever he wants.

So if God wanted to end all cancers, especially those that children suffer and die from, it could?

 

[robocop (actually)]

I read in a Jewish book that God simply existed at the same time as everything else and was the creating part of it not the getting-created.
My religion is a little different.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

That verse doesn't say when the water was made. Remember earth is not planet (capital E) "Earth". It's just "earth" in other words it means the land. The continents and islands. A less confusing translation (for modern readers) would be "In the beginning God created the skies and the land"

So it didn't tell us when the water or the planet was actually made. At least not in the first verse.

All of that is really not relevant TO the question of where God WAS before "creating" anything.

But to answer your question. We don't know exactly "where" God is relative to our own universe. I really think that our "universe" is literally nowhere compared to God. It's almost like nothing to God. What I mean is that it doesn't seem to occupy any actual space in the realm that God lives in.

Unfortunately, that does NOT "answer my question". What all that "means" is that you really DON'T know, and you're just stumbling all over yourself, in attempting to not make it sound so obvious. And the question is NOT where God IS "relative to the universe", as much as where God WAS before having brought the universe into existence. Remember, the thinking is, that there was NOTHING before God made SOMETHING...so where was God if there was NOTHING and NO PLACE for Him to be?

Because it seems the universe is kind of like a computer program or something.

Something like the Matrix movies, ehhh?

God used his "Word" to create and uphold everything. It's the source code. So God obviously dwells outside of this universe.

I'm curious as to why you think this is so "obvious" to you, as it sure isn't obvious to me?

Wherever God is, it's beyond this place. All of this emanates from his infinite mind and is upheld by his Word. He may also have certain kinds of gigantic machines to keep functions of this universe in operation. That's speculation though.

Thanks....as you took the words right out of my mouth...pure speculation it is

What I can say confidently is that he's incomprehensibly powerful and in control of it all and nothing can stop him doing whatever he wants.

Well you ARE in good company as there are a LOT of people who pretty much say the same thing. Thing is, I and no one else I can think of, can actually DISPROVE that sort of claim. Doesn't make it true or factual, just that it can't proven OR disproven.
Thanks for your response

 

[ACEofALLaces]

I've read creationists claim that God as the spirit and timeless already existed, and it created the material universe that the spirit animated.

Now, how did the creator make material from nothing? Well that's a question.

That it IS...however, it still doesn't address the issue of WHERE God was, BEFORE there was some PLACE for Him to be?

 

[ppp]

What I can say confidently is that he's incomprehensibly powerful and in control of it all and nothing can stop him doing whatever he wants.

People say all sorts of things confidently. The question is can you demonstrate that you can say it competently?

 

[ACEofALLaces]

I read in a Jewish book that God simply existed at the same time as everything else and was the creating part of it not the getting-created.
My religion is a little different.

That's sort of what the Bahai's believe as well.....that there really was no "creation", in that God AND the universe and both equally eternal and uncreated. Yet, in spite OF that, (they) still refer to God as "creator-God", for reasons I have never gotten a decent explanation for.

 

[74x12]

That it IS...however, it still doesn't address the issue of WHERE God was, BEFORE there was some PLACE for Him to be?

You're asking questions that probably only God would know. I think my best guess is he is like a universe unto himself that his own consciousness can move around in and interact with. Basically I think if his mind is really infinite then within his own thoughts he has infinite space. If he has already thought of everything possible then that is a lot of "things". To God all these things could be real and simultaneously existing. He divides between them to make something that actually makes sense; such as this universe. Otherwise it would all be jumbled together in chaotic form. So then I think God made this universe from out of what is called "chaos". God used his word to divide between the things that could be and the things he decided actually should be. This way he brought "order" to the chaos and the universe was born.

Unfortunately, that does NOT "answer my question". What all that "means" is that you really DON'T know, and you're just stumbling all over yourself, in attempting to not make it sound so obvious.

I'm not stumbling anything. I didn't realize you were challenging me like this. I thought you were genuinely curious.

Something like the Matrix movies, ehhh?

A little bit like it.

I'm curious as to why you think this is so "obvious" to you, as it sure isn't obvious to me?

Because the scripture makes it clear that God makes everything by his spoken Word. So he just speaks and it exists. That's a strong indication that he's outside it all. Or to be precise we might be inside of him.

 

[74x12]

People say all sorts of things confidently. The question is can you demonstrate that you can say it competently?

I'm not God.

 

[ppp]

You're asking questions that probably only God would know. I think my best guess is he is like a universe unto himself that his own consciousness can move around in and interact with. Basically I think if his mind is really infinite then within his own thoughts he has infinite space. If he has already thought of everything possible then that is a lot of "things". To God all these things could be real and simultaneously existing. He divides between them to make something that actually makes sense; such as this universe. Otherwise it would all be jumbled together in chaotic form. So then I think God made this universe from out of what is called "chaos". God used his word to divide between the things that could be and the things he decided actually should be. This way he brought "order" to the chaos and the universe was born.

I'm not stumbling anything. I didn't realize you were challenging me like this. I thought you were genuinely curious.

A little bit like it.

Because the scripture makes it clear that God makes everything by his spoken Word. So he just speaks and it exists. That's a strong indication that he's outside it all. Or to be precise we might be inside of him.

The thing is that it's a bunch of humans such as yourself claiming that God was. But if you don't know any details about God was-ing, then why should anyone believe that you actually know that God was. Or is. Or will be?

 

[ACEofALLaces]

I've read creationists claim that God as the spirit and timeless already existed, and it created the material universe that the spirit animated.

Ok, "already existed".....but WHERE? Since there WAS "nothing" until it was "created"?

Now, how did the creator make material from nothing? Well that's a question.

I'm CERTAINLY no physicist, but I DO read much of their stuff, and it seems that (they) have indeed caused virtual particles of matter to literally APPEAR, out of what was considered to be an empty vacuum.
If THEY can do that, then I guess it is no biggie for a God to do it on a much larger scale. Still, the question remains, WHERE was God, BEFORE a place for Him to "be" was created?

 

[F1fan]

That it IS...however, it still doesn't address the issue of WHERE God was, BEFORE there was some PLACE for Him to be?

Well, no time and space. But God existed as a phenomenon beyond these physical states. Believers have no other option than to claim this. Science has pushed them into a corner, and they rehab their God every time there is a problem for it existing. It is clever they claim it exists in a way that is not relevant to physics. Of course this means that no material being, like believers, can know their God exists. Oops.

But then that why they have faith, the immaterial equivalent to a material universe where reason is superior as a means to know anything. Oops.

 

[ppp]

I'm not God.

Since the question was not, are you God, your statement is irrelevant and evasive. Evasive. What you really meant to say is, " No, I have no ability to say anything competently."

 

[ACEofALLaces]

You're asking questions that probably only God would know. I think my best guess is he is like a universe unto himself that his own consciousness can move around in and interact with. Basically I think if his mind is really infinite then within his own thoughts he has infinite space. If he has already thought of everything possible then that is a lot of "things". To God all these things could be real and simultaneously existing. He divides between them to make something that actually makes sense; such as this universe. Otherwise it would all be jumbled together in chaotic form. So then I think God made this universe from out of what is called "chaos". God used his word to divide between the things that could be and the things he decided actually should be. This way he brought "order" to the chaos and the universe was born.

I'm not stumbling anything. I didn't realize you were challenging me like this. I thought you were genuinely curious.

Well regardless of what you might think of me, I AM genuinely curious....and sometimes I NEED to get a little, as you say, "challenging" in order to get SOME (not necessarily you, of course) but SOME complacent people to actually THINK a bit about what they believe.

Because the scripture makes it clear that God makes everything by his spoken Word. So he just speaks and it exists. That's a strong indication that he's outside it all. Or to be precise we might be inside of him.

Over the years I have been kicking this religious business around, I come to the conclusion that what is written in the Bible, that so many believers have come to believe IS the actual words of their God, is in reality, nothing but a collection of ideas, musing, theories, postulations, etc etc of what amounted to back then as a bunch of indigent, nomadic, uneducated Goat-herders, and NOT something which I should place any sizeable amount of trust in its veracity and it validity.
BUT, I also realize and admit, that it IS all we have and need to make the most of it that we can.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

You're asking questions that probably only God would know. I think my best guess is he is like a universe unto himself that his own consciousness can move around in and interact with. Basically I think if his mind is really infinite then within his own thoughts he has infinite space. If he has already thought of everything possible then that is a lot of "things". To God all these things could be real and simultaneously existing. He divides between them to make something that actually makes sense; such as this universe. Otherwise it would all be jumbled together in chaotic form. So then I think God made this universe from out of what is called "chaos". God used his word to divide between the things that could be and the things he decided actually should be. This way he brought "order" to the chaos and the universe was born.

I'm not stumbling anything. I didn't realize you were challenging me like this. I thought you were genuinely curious.

Well regardless of what you might think of me, I AM genuinely curious....and sometimes I NEED to get a little, as you say, "challenging" in order to get SOME (not necessarily you, of course) but SOME complacent people to actually THINK a bit about what they believe.

Because the scripture makes it clear that God makes everything by his spoken Word. So he just speaks and it exists. That's a strong indication that he's outside it all. Or to be precise we might be inside of him.

Over the years I have been kicking this religious business around, I come to the conclusion that what is written in the Bible, that so many believers have come to believe IS the actual words of their God, is in reality, nothing but a collection of ideas, musing, theories, postulations, etc etc of what amounted to back then as a bunch of indigent, nomadic, uneducated Goat-herders, and NOT something which I should place any sizeable amount of trust in its veracity and it validity.
BUT, I also realize and admit, that it IS all we have and need to make the most of it that we can.

 

[rational experiences]

In the Christian Bible, it starts out, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with the inference being that there was "nothing" before God created it.
Ok, well that brings the question to my mind at least, SINCE God is said to be Himself uncreated and WITHOUT beginning.....just where WAS God BEFORE He created a place for Himself to BE?

In his own O God body not yet God the earth as God the earth was said by man standing on God the earth. The Before God never spoke.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Well, no time and space. But God existed as a phenomenon beyond these physical states. Believers have no other option than to claim this. Science has pushed them into a corner, and they rehab their God every time there is a problem for it existing. It is clever they claim it exists in a way that is not relevant to physics. Of course this means that no material being, like believers, can know their God exists. Oops.

It is IMMEASURABLY difficult for ANY believer to convince a typical NON believer, of the validity OF their beliefs. Especially when speaking of an entity which itself defies description. I realize the limitations we ALL much work with when discussing such an entity as God. Still, I like to ask questions...in the hope that I WILL learn something that I hadn't thought of before.

But then that why they have faith, the immaterial equivalent to a material universe where reason is superior as a means to know anything. Oops.

It's ALL (they) have to work with....I do have to keep reminding myself of that. I'd STILL like to "know"

 

[ACEofALLaces]

In his own O God body not yet God the earth as God the earth was said by man standing on God the earth. The Before God never spoke.

I do NOT want to sound disrespectful, but THAT just went WHOOSH over, or maybe THROUGH my head.
If you would care to reword that for this amateur, I'd certainly appreciate it, ok?