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In the Beginning.....

74x12

Well-Known Member
Hoping to clarify, you have changed the words of the bible (not a good thing to do) to "In the beginning God created the skies and the land."
I'm going off of the Hebrew. So your English translations are using dated language. "earth" and "heavens" have added on cultural meaning in modern English. We think of planet earth and heaven as some celestial realm of God and angels. But it's not necessarily talking about those things in particular. That is why skies and land is probably shocking to some Bible believers. But it's still undeniably a correct translation of the Hebrew. To be fair so is earth and heavens but I think skies and land is less confusing.
So, your statement is contrary to science, but the bible is not contrary to science. So, I reject your "less confusing" translation for modern readers because it radically alters what the bible says and makes it inconsistent with science.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. No it doesn't. I'm not saying God didn't make the universe. I'm just saying we don't know when exactly.

So for example you realize that according to science all matter is energy right? And energy is light. Yet God doesn't say "Let there be light" until verse 3. Genesis 1:3. So you need to understand it's not all plain as to when and how God made everything. All we know is that in 7 periods of "light" which God called days which were not solar days but days unto God; he made everything. So in my opinion the entire creation account has to be understood as being extremely mysterious and hard to understand.

Otherwise you might end up like atheists just saying it's all children's bed time stories from bronze age goatherders. And that's definitely incorrect because we can see from how deep, clearly mystic and mysterious it all is that there is more to it than simple fairy tales. And indeed the more I learn the more amazed I am at it all.
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
In the Christian Bible, it starts out, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with the inference being that there was "nothing" before God created it.
Ok, well that brings the question to my mind at least, SINCE God is said to be Himself uncreated and WITHOUT beginning.....just where WAS God BEFORE He created a place for Himself to BE?

Beginning is an arbitrary set point. In the beginning of what?
In the beginning of the day, in the beginning of creation.
I think the inference that there existed nothing before maybe a false assumption.
 

ACEofALLaces

Active Member
Premium Member
In my opinion, the Supreme Being exists in infinity, because the Holy One is infinity. Where, any other conclusion would put this Being in a box (Isa. 57:15) and limit the Holy One! Thus, the universe where angels and humans exist is within infinity. The angels of the Supreme Being have more understanding of the universe, because it was created for them. Where, the understanding of humans is limited. However, (it seems) that neither: angels nor humans have a complete understanding of infinity, because infinity has no beginning and no end. And this concept is beyond the angel and human mind's capacity…

I gots no real problem with God being "infinite"...but like you said, humans are incapable of fathoming the concept of being infinite, beyond the actual words themselves.
The way I read the scripture regarding this matter, is that "in the beginning" without defining the 'beginning of WHAT', God "created", that is BROUGHT INTO BEING, the heavens and the Earth.
I read THAT as declaring that EVERYTHING that there IS, was brought into existence by God.....and THEN He created the Earth.
Be that as it may.......my question was and still IS, God HAD to have "been" somewhere, BEFORE creating the heavens and then the Earth. What and WHERE was that "somewhere" BEFORE God did all His creating?
I realize that there most likely IS no good answer to that question...but since I don't know 'everything', I would be derelict in NOT at least ASKING. Maybe someone out there DOES know, or has a decent IDEA.
 

ACEofALLaces

Active Member
Premium Member
Beginning is an arbitrary set point. In the beginning of what?
In the beginning of the day, in the beginning of creation.
I think the inference that there existed nothing before maybe a false assumption.
You are SO right..."in the beginning of WHAT"?
And the inference is based upon the idea that BEFORE God started His creating, there WAS nothing, at least not before He CREATED it. At least that is how I interpret that scripture. YMMV
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I'm going off of the Hebrew. So your English translations are using dated language. "earth" and "heavens" have added on cultural meaning in modern English. We think of planet earth and heaven as some celestial realm of God and angels. But it's not necessarily talking about those things in particular. That is why skies and land is probably shocking to some Bible believers. But it's still undeniably a correct translation of the Hebrew. To be fair so is earth and heavens but I think skies and land is less confusing.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. No it doesn't. I'm not saying God didn't make the universe. I'm just saying we don't know when exactly.

So for example you realize that according to science all matter is energy right? And energy is light. Yet God doesn't say "Let there be light" until verse 3. Genesis 1:3. So you need to understand it's not all plain as to when and how God made everything. All we know is that in 7 periods of "light" which God called days which were not solar days but days unto God; he made everything. So in my opinion the entire creation account has to be understood as being extremely mysterious and hard to understand.

Otherwise you might end up like atheists just saying it's all children's bed time stories from bronze age goatherders. And that's definitely incorrect because we can see from how deep, clearly mystic and mysterious it all is that there is more to it than simple fairy tales. And indeed the more I learn the more amazed I am at it all.

"All matter is energy and energy is light"
Right?
Wrong.
 

Neuropteron

Active Member
In the Christian Bible, it starts out, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with the inference being that there was "nothing" before God created it.
Ok, well that brings the question to my mind at least, SINCE God is said to be Himself uncreated and WITHOUT beginning.....just where WAS God BEFORE He created a place for Himself to BE?

Hi,

"In the beginning..." this is referring to the beginning of creating the earth and the heavens from earth's perspective.

We know that the "material" for the earth was already created from verse 2 "Now the earth was without form and waste" KJT.

Genesis does not specify any other material creation, but we cannot infer from that that nothing was made, since we know that his son and the angels were created before creating the earth.

Thus to state that "nothing" was created before the earth is incorrect.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
In the Christian Bible, it starts out, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", with the inference being that there was "nothing" before God created it.
Ok, well that brings the question to my mind at least, SINCE God is said to be Himself uncreated and WITHOUT beginning.....just where WAS God BEFORE He created a place for Himself to BE?
I don’t see that the creation of the physical heavens and earth was so that God would have a place to BE, since God is eternal God was already somewhere. I certainly can’t comprehend where that somewhere is, but likely some kind of eternal spiritual realm, because God is Spirit.
 

ACEofALLaces

Active Member
Premium Member
Hi,
"In the beginning..." this is referring to the beginning of creating the earth and the heavens from earth's perspective.
Just your own personal interpretation, I take it........ok.


We know that the "material" for the earth was already created from verse 2 "Now the earth was without form and waste" KJT.
Are you SURE about that? The earth was without form......like a nebulous ball of gas or something? A cloud of smoke? Since there were no "people" yet, I don't suppose there WOULD be any "waste" <supposed to be a joke>

Genesis does not specify any other material creation, but we cannot infer from that that nothing was made, since we know that his son and the angels were created before creating the earth.
I would tend to agree....nothing MATERIAL was created after the "the heavens and the earth".....except for a rather vague (almost an afterthought) where He also created the Stars.
HowEVER, there is nothing in Genesis which suggests that Jesus and the angels were created BEFORE the earth. Do you have some evidence to support that?

Thus to state that "nothing" was created before the earth is incorrect.
I DON'T think that is what I said. What I SAID was that as worded, there was "nothing" around BEFORE God created it. Which prompted my questioning as to where WAS God if there hadn't been anything CREATED BY HIM yet? Ok?
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
That's sort of what the Bahai's believe as well.....that there really was no "creation", in that God AND the universe and both equally eternal and uncreated. Yet, in spite OF that, (they) still refer to God as "creator-God", for reasons I have never gotten a decent explanation for.
OK... you've told me what the Bahai' believe and I've told you what the Jews believe.

Latter-day Saints believe in different generations of time in eternity.
 

ACEofALLaces

Active Member
Premium Member
I don’t see that the creation of the physical heavens and earth was so that God would have a place to BE, since God is eternal God was already somewhere.
Ok, so God was already "somewhere".....but the way Genesis is worded, there WAS no "somewhere" until God had CREATED it. Which prompts the question, then where WAS God, before God created a place for HIM to be?


I certainly can’t comprehend where that somewhere is, but likely some kind of eternal spiritual realm, because God is Spirit.
Yeah, me neither....but I certainly cannot simply declare that God was in some kind of "spiritual realm" without having a clue what that even means. But, that's just me.....heh heh heh What does it mean to YOU?
 

ACEofALLaces

Active Member
Premium Member
OK... you've told me what the Bahai' believe and I've told you what the Jews believe.

Latter-day Saints believe in different generations of time in eternity.
I for one would really appreciate as simple of an explanation as you can come up with to explain that comment..if you don't mind.
 

ACEofALLaces

Active Member
Premium Member
OK... you've told me what the Bahai' believe and I've told you what the Jews believe.Latter-day Saints believe in different generations of time in eternity.

[/QUOTE]Please quote me if you reply to me so I can find you and respond afterward.[/QUOTE]
I dunno how to do that.....when I click on the "quote" button, nothing happens. Sorry
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I for one would really appreciate as simple of an explanation as you can come up with to explain that comment..if you don't mind.
The Universe exists beyond time, but beings like God and potentially us can start off sub-Universes that exist from time a to time b. It has to do with filling up the Universe IMO.
 

ACEofALLaces

Active Member
Premium Member
The Universe exists beyond time,
Other than wondering HOW you could possibly know that.....it almost sounds as if, according to you, the universe never DID have a "beginning".

[/QUOTE]but beings like God and potentially us can start off sub-Universes that exist from time a to time b. It has to do with filling up the Universe IMO. [/QUOTE]
I must really be the dummie here, as I gotta plead the 5th again, as I have NO idea what you are talking about...sorry :)
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Other than wondering HOW you could possibly know that.....it almost sounds as if, according to you, the universe never DID have a "beginning".
but beings like God and potentially us can start off sub-Universes that exist from time a to time b. It has to do with filling up the Universe IMO. [/QUOTE]
I must really be the dummie here, as I gotta plead the 5th again, as I have NO idea what you are talking about...sorry :)[/QUOTE]
There are things beyond time.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Mostly.....while all matter is EQUIVALENT to energy......not ALL energy is LIGHT....light is just one FORM of energy.

Mostly? What is modtly what?
No, its not "equivalent".
We kind of know about light as a form
of energy.
You might brush up on your basic physics sos you can concoct correct cosmology.
 

ACEofALLaces

Active Member
Premium Member
Mostly? What is mostly what?
No, its not "equivalent".
We kind of know about light as a form
of energy.
You might brush up on your basic physics sos you can concoct correct cosmology.
I'll certainly give it a shot.....oh and btw, I take it that you are not familar with Einstens' E=MC ²...if you were, then you would have understood the equivalency of matter to energy.
And all energy is NOT in the form of light as you seemed to have been alluding...though light IS a "form of energy".
Gimme a break here...while you may be smart, that does not mean I am stupid.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I'll certainly give it a shot.....oh and btw, I take it that you are not familar with Einstens' E=MC ²...if you were, then you would have understood the equivalency of matter to energy.
And all energy is NOT in the form of light as you seemed to have been alluding...though light IS a "form of energy".
Gimme a break here...while you may be smart, that does not mean I am stupid.

Just bustin' your what ever.
Call him Einstein, and, matter and energy
are two forms of the same thing and I
will need a new topic to alliterate.
 
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