Increasing Risk

[Daemon Sophic]

People who think in terms of violence will find that in their solutions.
But if one thinks in terms of just solutions, more options appear..
The goal I'd pursue: Prevent violence as peacefully as possible.
Meeting violence with violence would be the last resort.

OK. Several thousand angry men with guns pushing over the fence barricades around the capital building as Mr. Biden is being sworn in. They have not fired any rounds yet, but the fence is failing.
....
...aaaaand. Take it @Revoltingest !


.


.

.
A real reply please, with suggestions for that exact scenario. The scenario the right wing media is promoting as what MUST occur for “justice” and “liberty” to continue in Trump’s ‘mer’ca.

 

[Revoltingest]

OK. Several thousand angry men with guns pushing over the fence barricades around the capital building as Mr. Biden is being sworn in. They have not fired any rounds yet, but the fence is failing.
....
...aaaaand. Take it @Revoltingest !

I've already addressed that in one of the threads....
Avoid that scenario by controlling who gets within miles
of the Capitol. But I recommend that the inauguration
happen without media coverage or crowds. The MAGAs
would find themselves all dressed up but with no party
to attend.
Another option is to bargain with Trump to issue a message
designed to end hostilities, eg, no impeachment in exchange
for an admission that the election was fair, he lost, & he
wants no violence to harm his base politically.

A real reply please, with suggestions for that exact scenario.

See above.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I've already addressed that in one of the threads....
Avoid that scenario by controlling who gets within miles
of the Capitol. But I recommend that the inauguration
happen without media coverage or crowds. The MAGAs
would find themselves all dressed up but with no party
to attend.
Another option is to bargain with Trump to issue a message
designed to end hostilities, eg, no impeachment in exchange
for an admission that the election was fair, he lost, & he
wants no violence to harm his base politically.

See above.

The Trumpettes will be at the capital building on January 20, at noon. That date and time and location are long since settled. Shutting down the city of DC, evacuating all non-essential citizens, and cordoning off a 2 mile radius with soldiers, tanks, apache helicopters etc....
And an inauguration without press.
You’re 0 for 2 so far.

Now then. Bargain with the undeniably insane out-going president ** who frequently goes off script.....hmmmm....
Like,....
“I know your pain. I know you’re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it, especially the other side, but you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don’t want anybody hurt. It’s a very tough period of time. There’s never been a time like this where such a thing happened, where they could take it away from all of us, from me, from you, from our country. This was a fraudulent election, but we can’t play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You’re very special. You’ve seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home at peace.”

What do you recommend if/when he goes off-script and repeats his “thoughts” above? Explosive collar? Shock collar?
No. Trump and his enablers have, and continue to miss the fact that a president’s words have lasting consequences, for good or evil. If given a platform, Trump is much more likely to use his last days for self-serving evil.
...and you know that to be true.


@Audie ? How about you?


** - He is unchanged. He was insane coming in to the presidency too.

 

[Revoltingest]

The Trumpettes will be at the capital building on January 20, at noon. That date and time and location are long since settled. Shutting down the city of DC, evacuating all non-essential citizens, and cordoning off a 2 mile radius with soldiers, tanks, apache helicopters etc....
And an inauguration without press.
You’re 0 for 2 so far.

That is one way to handle it.

Now then. Bargain with the undeniably insane out-going president ** who frequently goes off script.....hmmmm....
Like,....
“I know your pain. I know you’re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it, especially the other side, but you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don’t want anybody hurt. It’s a very tough period of time. There’s never been a time like this where such a thing happened, where they could take it away from all of us, from me, from you, from our country. This was a fraudulent election, but we can’t play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You’re very special. You’ve seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home at peace.”

What do you recommend if/when he goes off-script and repeats his “thoughts” above? Explosive collar? Shock collar?
No. Trump and his enablers have, and continue to miss the fact that a president’s words have lasting consequences, for good or evil. If given a platform, Trump is much more likely to use his last days for self-serving evil.
...and you know that to be true.


@Audie ? How about you?

It's easy to envision scenarios in which negotiation fails.
But the same can be said for the more violent approach.
If you had attack helicopters gunning demonstrators down,
this would very likely cause violent backlash throughout
the country. My approach's downside isn't catastrophic.

I have some experience dealing with very difficult situations.
It has always served me well to creatively explore the most
peaceful solutions. One must be calm, & take one's time
to consider the possibilities & consequences. Handle the
other parties' emotional needs....which is particularly important
with someone like twitchy, angry, & fearful like Trump.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The Trumpettes will be at the capital building on January 20, at noon. That date and time and location are long since settled. Shutting down the city of DC, evacuating all non-essential citizens, and cordoning off a 2 mile radius with soldiers, tanks, apache helicopters etc....
And an inauguration without press.
You’re 0 for 2 so far.

Now then. Bargain with the undeniably insane out-going president ** who frequently goes off script.....hmmmm....
Like,....
“I know your pain. I know you’re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it, especially the other side, but you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don’t want anybody hurt. It’s a very tough period of time. There’s never been a time like this where such a thing happened, where they could take it away from all of us, from me, from you, from our country. This was a fraudulent election, but we can’t play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You’re very special. You’ve seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home at peace.”

What do you recommend if/when he goes off-script and repeats his “thoughts” above? Explosive collar? Shock collar?
No. Trump and his enablers have, and continue to miss the fact that a president’s words have lasting consequences, for good or evil. If given a platform, Trump is much more likely to use his last days for self-serving evil.
...and you know that to be true.


@Audie ? How about you?


** - He is unchanged. He was insane coming in to the presidency too.

And: there are rallies being planned for the 17th at all 50 state capitols. Armed rallies. Are we to have 51 “green zones” like we had in Baghdad?

For how long? Even after January 20, we can expect Trump to agitate for years and the extremists will continue to be disgruntled for years.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

That is one way to handle it.

It's easy to envision scenarios in which negotiation fails.
But the same can be said for the more violent approach.
If you had attack helicopters gunning demonstrators down,
this would very likely cause violent backlash throughout
the country. My approach's downside isn't catastrophic.

I have some experience dealing with very difficult situations.
It has always served me well to creatively explore the most
peaceful solutions. One must be calm, & take one's time
to consider the possibilities & consequences. Handle the
other parties' emotional needs....which is particularly important
with someone like twitchy, angry, & fearful like Trump.

I mostly agree. Although your “approach” could certainly have a catastrophic downside. If the amoral, lawless, insane narcissist man we call POTUS grabs the mic and demands “watering the tree of liberty with the blood.....etc...etc...” then we have a big catastrophe.
However, I should point out that helicopter gunships would be part of your plan, as nothing less is going to keep a large metropolitan center like DC free of armed men on a mission.
But of course the cordoning off the city route, even if in the upside “successful” version of your approach, still shows the entire world the US as teetering on the edge of anarchy.
Its actually a win-win for the righties, because ....
1. - they mount a coup if they destroy the US and then they get to establish a conservative new country.
Or...
2. - they don’t attack, or even if they fight and lose, the righty press won’t point out that all of the military presence is necessary to keep out the frothing morons on the right. No. Instead they will happily and proudly lie, as they point to all the security measures as signs of “a false president/dictator, suppressing the good people from gathering peacefully, as the Constitution allows...blah...blah...blah.”

In fact I will call that one right now, regardless of how peacefully the next two weeks are.

 

[Audie]

The Trumpettes will be at the capital building on January 20, at noon. That date and time and location are long since settled. Shutting down the city of DC, evacuating all non-essential citizens, and cordoning off a 2 mile radius with soldiers, tanks, apache helicopters etc....
And an inauguration without press.
You’re 0 for 2 so far.

Now then. Bargain with the undeniably insane out-going president ** who frequently goes off script.....hmmmm....
Like,....
“I know your pain. I know you’re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election, and everyone knows it, especially the other side, but you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don’t want anybody hurt. It’s a very tough period of time. There’s never been a time like this where such a thing happened, where they could take it away from all of us, from me, from you, from our country. This was a fraudulent election, but we can’t play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You’re very special. You’ve seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home at peace.”

What do you recommend if/when he goes off-script and repeats his “thoughts” above? Explosive collar? Shock collar?
No. Trump and his enablers have, and continue to miss the fact that a president’s words have lasting consequences, for good or evil. If given a platform, Trump is much more likely to use his last days for self-serving evil.
...and you know that to be true.


@Audie ? How about you?


** - He is unchanged. He was insane coming in to the presidency too.

me what?
Think he's a terrible president and the
unhinged left msnsged to make him worse?

Whaddya want?

 

[Audie]

I remember there were riots, but that’s just America for you. You guys like a good riot, apparently. I think we were so numb by that point it was but a footnote on the nightly news. I don’t remember any being nearly as bad as last week though. That was so bad even the world stood aghast.

I don't think the usa has a history of riots
by masked marauders on inauguration day.

And I'm not American

 

[SomeRandom]

I don't think the usa has a history of riots
by masked marauders on inauguration day.

Maybe not. People are concerned it will happen this year, apparently.
FBI on alert and everything

 

[Revoltingest]

I mostly agree. Although your “approach” could certainly have a catastrophic downside. If the amoral, lawless, insane narcissist man we call POTUS grabs the mic and demands “watering the tree of liberty with the blood.....etc...etc...” then we have a big catastrophe.

Oh, ye of little imagination....
Record his speech in advance.

However, I should point out that helicopter gunships would be part of your plan, as nothing less is going to keep a large metropolitan center like DC free of armed men on a mission.
But of course the cordoning off the city route, even if in the upside “successful” version of your approach, still shows the entire world the US as teetering on the edge of anarchy.
Its actually a win-win for the righties, because ....
1. - they mount a coup if they destroy the US and then they get to establish a conservative new country.
Or...
2. - they don’t attack, or even if they fight and lose, the righty press won’t point out that all of the military presence is necessary to keep out the frothing morons on the right. No. Instead they will happily and proudly lie, as they point to all the security measures as signs of “a false president/dictator, suppressing the good people from gathering peacefully, as the Constitution allows...blah...blah...blah.”

In fact I will call that one right now, regardless of how peacefully the next two weeks are.

We shall see.

 

[Audie]

Maybe not. People are concerned it will happen this year, apparently.
FBI on alert and everything

I said no history, not " no future "

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It seems to me the risk of further shenanigans increases each day. That is, the closer we get to Trump's last moment in power, the more at risk we are that he'll want to tear down another pillar or two holding up our country. Nothing is for certain, but I think the risks are increasing.

And now we hear of armed protests planned for all 50 States. What could possibly go wrong?

Maybe it needs to get worse before people wake up. Maybe denial is just too comfortable.
Maybe folks don't know what 6MWE means. Maybe they don't care.

One thing is certain: Trump is a mirror and we're frighteningly close to seeing that mirror shatter. Those who are not scared are stupid.

 

[SomeRandom]

I said no history, not " no future "

Well the future is just history in the waiting, right

 

[Daemon Sophic]

me what?
Think he's a terrible president and the
unhinged left msnsged to make him worse?

Whaddya want?

It was in reference to posts 117 and 121.
But now I’m curious as to what “unhinged left msnsged to make him worse?” actually means.

 

[Stevicus]

And: there are rallies being planned for the 17th at all 50 state capitols. Armed rallies. Are we to have 51 “green zones” like we had in Baghdad?

For how long? Even after January 20, we can expect Trump to agitate for years and the extremists will continue to be disgruntled for years.

We might have to have "green zones," but that would imply that anything outside of those areas would be dangerous. There are some red areas of the country which are strong supporters of Trump - and a lot of wires, roads, pipelines, and railroads pass through these areas. We've seen incidents in the past where cutting off electricity in a major city can produce chaos literally overnight.

I remember when a pipeline burst and the city of Phoenix was cut off from most of their gasoline supplies for about two weeks. It didn't take long before fights were breaking out in long gas lines.

A lot of people talk about the fragility of democracy, but the infrastructure is also somewhat fragile and vulnerable in multiple spots. The healthcare system is already overloaded due to the pandemic.

Then there's the internet, which is also vulnerable to cyber attacks and "dark web" shenanigans. There was recent hacking that was purportedly done by the Russians. People upset about being "censored" by Big Tech could very well retaliate. And considering how many enemies our country has made over the past decades, anyone hellbent on creating mayhem within the United States could likely count on some outside help.

And the more mayhem and chaos one can create, more and more of the citizenry will be cut off and deprived of all the things they've taken for granted all their lives - which will inevitably lead to more mayhem and chaos.

This is why, I believe, it's more important to stop this craziness before it gets really bad. There's only 8 days left until the inauguration. It seems that Trump has pretty much thrown in the towel, and the majority of his followers are accepting that the election will not be overturned. The lawful, Constitutional transfer of power will take place, and democracy and our form of representative government has been preserved. Despite what happened at the Capitol, our democratic-republican system of government has prevailed.

But I think the powers that be should be careful about how they handle things in the aftermath. I think they can either secure the government and the democratic process - or they can go on a retaliatory vendetta against those who dared to defile it. But they can't do both.

 

[Audie]

It was in reference to posts 117 and 121.
But now I’m curious as to what “unhinged left msnsged to make him worse?” actually means.

Change s to a and you get from msnsged to managed

 

[Wandering Monk]

I remember there were riots, but that’s just America for you. You guys like a good riot, apparently. I think we were so numb by that point it was but a footnote on the nightly news. I don’t remember any being nearly as bad as last week though. That was so bad even the world stood aghast.

Ever seen any European footballers after thing don't go their way?

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Change s to a and you get from msnsged to managed

Thanks. That’s what I thought.
Going down that railway line will derail the thread; so I will avoid the non sequitur.

Meanwhile....Any suggestions per posts 117 and 121?

 

[Audie]

OK you two. America, justice, and democracy must win. Lies and violence, and insurrection based upon those lies, must be put down.
This second group is undeniably wrong, and against everything that the United States represents, and against what democracy itself represents.

This violent and ignorant group of anti-American scum are going to come with weapons. They are going to come with violence intended against our government.
Pray tell, rather than repeatedly quipping on what others have written, what would you two sagacious ones recommend on January 17, and in the years to come?

What i said was not a quip, your scenarios and characterizations are at best unrealistic.
I won't offer shades of worse.

 

[Sunstone]

And now we hear of armed protests planned for all 50 States. What could possibly go wrong?

Maybe it needs to get worse before people wake up. Maybe denial is just too comfortable.
Maybe folks don't know what 6MWE means. Maybe they don't care.

One thing is certain: Trump is a mirror and we're frighteningly close to seeing that mirror shatter. Those who are not scared are stupid.

I suspect what is scheduled now to start on the 17th will quickly become almost unprecedented in our history. I honestly can't tell if I'm being pathetic or not, but I'm spending as much of my time now as I can trying to savor and cherish whatever normalcy there is in each hour. You know, 'in case'.