Infinite time and space.

[The Sum of Awe]

The internet: it's ultimate crime is making everybody think they have an informed opinion.

Same goes for you. Again I have not made any claims, I have not presented my opinion, I was asking reasoning behind yours.

If you guys try to make people feel bad to win a debate, you all are terrible debaters. Continue having a civil debate or not?

 

[Photonic]

Same goes for you. Again I have not made any claims, I have not presented my opinion, I was asking reasoning behind yours.

If you guys try to make people feel bad to win a debate, you all are terrible debaters. Continue having a civil debate or not?

I've been nothing if not civil, this "debate" has consisted of me giving you an educated, expert opinion and sincerely attempting to educate you on the topic, and you throwing it back in my face and putting words in my mouth.

You want to label me as being uncivil?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I've been nothing if not civil, this "debate" has consisted of me giving you an educated, expert opinion and sincerely attempting to educate you on the topic, and you throwing it back in my face and putting words in my mouth.

You want to label me as being uncivil?

If you call debating from the other side "throwing it back in my face and putting words in my mouth" then sure.

Yes you are being uncivil when you are debating me about how we are debating...

 

[Photonic]

If you call debating from the other side "throwing it back in my face and putting words in my mouth" then sure.

Yes you are being uncivil when you are debating me about how we are debating...

I was debating you, I was attempting to give you material so you could understand what you are arguing a little better.

I have been nothing if not civil, I am reconsidering such a position however.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Found a quote I think fits you nicely.

I was debating you, I was attempting to give you material so you could understand what you are arguing a little better.

I have been nothing if not civil, I am reconsidering such a position however.

You did attempt to give me material, and I was debating it, and it was going friendly, until now when we get off subject.

On you claiming to be civil, remember this post?

Found a quote I think fits you nicely.

Or saying I'm uninformed out of nowhere when we didn't even finish our debate and even if we did finish (which we most certainly did not) why mock others?

The internet: it's ultimate crime is making everybody think they have an informed opinion.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Anyway, I believe we ended here:

Can we actually claim to know that time does not exist outside of the universe?

And I understand that your definition of time (needing motion) would most likely only exist in my universe, and assuming it does, what happens if something SOMEHOW flies out of the universe. Would the motion of that object create time?

If so I can agree, but my definition of time might be a bit tricky (sorry about that), but if time does not exist the universe would've ended at the same time it began being that the universe is inside a timeless infinitum. If a moving man steps inside a timeless area, he would be born and die and everything at the same moment, it wouldn't even be a second and his body is gone. So how is the universe still in existence?

 

[Photonic]

You did attempt to give me material, and I was debating it, and it was going friendly, until now when we get off subject.

On you claiming to be civil, remember this post?




Or saying I'm uninformed out of nowhere when we didn't even finish our debate and even if we did finish (which we most certainly did not) why mock others?

Me telling you that you now have the information at your disposal

via

"1500 years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you knew that people were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow"
- Agent K

Isn't an insult, it's a realization that you can "know" and still not be correct.

At the start of this, you KNEW what time was. Now you are no longer so sure you know what time really is. I responded by helping you understand that time is vastly different than a layman understanding of it is.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Me telling you that you now have the information at your disposal

via

"1500 years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you knew that people were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow"
- Agent K

Isn't an insult, it's a realization that you can "know" and still not be correct.

At the start of this, you KNEW what time was. Now you are no longer so sure you know what time really is. I responded by helping you understand that time is vastly different than a layman understanding of it is.

Fair enough.

You're right, I'm not sure what time really is now, I understand what your version of time is, based on movement, but I do not know what I'm thinking time is and still would like to know

 

[The Sum of Awe]

If that works best, to go offline I'll repost in case you missed

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Anyway, I believe we ended here:

Can we actually claim to know that time does not exist outside of the universe?

And I understand that your definition of time (needing motion) would most likely only exist in my universe, and assuming it does, what happens if something SOMEHOW flies out of the universe. Would the motion of that object create time?

If so I can agree, but my definition of time might be a bit tricky (sorry about that), but if time does not exist the universe would've ended at the same time it began being that the universe is inside a timeless infinitum. If a moving man steps inside a timeless area, he would be born and die and everything at the same moment, it wouldn't even be a second and his body is gone. So how is the universe still in existence?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Just because there is, even if there is, and I don't pick a side on this one, personally or for the debate, why does that mean the spacetime is only within our universe?

I know what you mean .. you're trying to say "how do you know that our universe (space-time) doesn't exist outside our universe..

There .. you see how meaningless that really is? Space-time and the universe are synonomous.

Can the universe be outside the universe as well as inside
[ crazy, man! ]

 

[PolyHedral]

Can we actually claim to know that time does not exist outside of the universe?

Asking what is outside the universe is similar to asking "What colour is the sky in space," or perhaps, "What is the latitude/longitude of the moon?" It is inherently nonsensical, because it assumes things that are false. In the case of asking what is outside the universe, it is nonsensical because the very concept of outside inherently depends on there being a concept of space. The only basis of what "space" is that we have to compare to is that of the universe.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I know what you mean .. you're trying to say "how do you know that our universe (space-time) doesn't exist outside our universe..

There .. you see how meaningless that really is? Space-time and the universe are synonomous.

Can the universe be outside the universe as well as inside
[ crazy, man! ]

I was more like asking how our universe exists if it is in a timeless place

 

[idav]

I was more like asking how our universe exists if it is in a timeless place

Are you saying the universe can't exist unless time is linear? Time in this system is different than time in other systems including black holes. It's not timeless just relative. Depends on what realm your are looking from. Right now your in 3d hi def.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Asking what is outside the universe is similar to asking "What colour is the sky in space," or perhaps, "What is the latitude/longitude of the moon?" It is inherently nonsensical, because it assumes things that are false. In the case of asking what is outside the universe, it is nonsensical because the very concept of outside inherently depends on there being a concept of space. The only basis of what "space" is that we have to compare to is that of the universe.

So you are saying the universe is all existence, is the entire reality?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Are you saying the universe can't exist unless time is linear? Time in this system is different than time in other systems including black holes. It's not timeless just relative. Depends on what realm your are looking from. Right now your in 3d hi def.

No, I'm saying if time doesn't exist in a place, everything that happens would happen at once; death, birth, midlife. So the universe wouldn't have kept expanding, it should've died by now.

 

[Photonic]

Anyway, I believe we ended here:

Can we actually claim to know that time does not exist outside of the universe?

And I understand that your definition of time (needing motion) would most likely only exist in my universe, and assuming it does, what happens if something SOMEHOW flies out of the universe. Would the motion of that object create time?

If so I can agree, but my definition of time might be a bit tricky (sorry about that), but if time does not exist the universe would've ended at the same time it began being that the universe is inside a timeless infinitum. If a moving man steps inside a timeless area, he would be born and die and everything at the same moment, it wouldn't even be a second and his body is gone. So how is the universe still in existence?

I guess if I'm making any claim here, it is that we cannot measure time outside of the universe, not that it can't exist. To do so we would have to radically change both the definition and our understanding of what time is.

So time as we understand it from a human and physical perspective would not exist.

 

[Photonic]

So you are saying the universe is all existence, is the entire reality?

Actually, by definition that is exactly what it means.

The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of everything that exists,[1] including all matter and energy, the planets, stars, galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space.

 

[idav]

No, I'm saying if time doesn't exist in a place, everything that happens would happen at once; death, birth, midlife. So the universe wouldn't have kept expanding, it should've died by now.

Maybe but that didn't happen. Time began expanding with space 14 billion years ago.

 

[shawn001]

Who cares that there are things in empty space, it isn't a essential part of it.

LOL

Yes, it is a big part of it all, you have heard of quantum mechanics yes?

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Quantum theory, and specifically Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle, provide a natural explanation for how that energy may have come out of nothing. Throughout the universe, particles and antiparticles spontaneously form and quickly annihilate each other without violating the law of energy conservation. These spontaneous births and deaths of so-called "virtual particle" pairs are known as "quantum fluctuations." Indeed, laboratory experiments have proven that quantum fluctuations occur everywhere, all the time. Virtual particle pairs (such as electrons and positrons) directly affect the energy levels of atoms, and the predicted energy levels disagree with the experimentally measured levels unless quantum fluctuations are taken into account.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Perhaps many quantum fluctuations occurred before the birth of our universe. Most of them quickly disappeared. But one lived sufficiently long and had the right conditions for inflation to have been initiated. Thereafter, the original tiny volume inflated by an enormous factor, and our macroscopic universe was born. The original particle-antiparticle pair (or pairs) may have subsequently annihilated each other – but even if they didn’t, the violation of energy conservation would be minuscule, not large enough to be measurable."[/FONT]

ASP: A Universe from Nothing