No, I'm showing you that there's a right translation and a wrong translation.
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****ing context please
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
And yet, you haven't shown that.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
By that definition, I would most certainly say the man referenced in the OP was murdered.
Didn't you read what Tumah said?
Can you honestly not tell the difference between Ted Bundy intentionally killing innocent people and the State putting an innocent person to death by accident, because they had good reason to think him a killer? The State thought it was doing the right thing by putting a perceived killer to death. Ted Bundy knew he was doing the wrong thing by murdering people.
Seriously this isn't difficult.
Hello.
Not when I take actual Innocence into mind. The human judgment of innocence doesn't suffice, which is why no killing makes divine sense. If I ignore the divine Reason, I can see what you are trying to get across, but wouldn't play willy nilly with calling Capital punishment an accident when it is wrong. I would call it murder, and not play nicey nice. Supporting the State on that accident would mean supporting the State on abortion because humans are so well developed to know what makes for justifiable killing and what doesn't. (Eye roll)
I disagree that Bundy thought he was doing the wrong thing. He obviously enjoyed it, and thought there was merit in continuing to do it.
Do not kill ought to be not difficult, and yet, here we are debating it.
From divine perspective, I truly understand Reasoning to be - better to be killed than kill another. From way this world works, it is opposite: better to kill than be killed.
So, in short, you don't support CP.
No, I don't support insanity.
The context is might makes right. What God says, goes, so any god-ordained reason for killing is automatically just because they consider him the arbiter of justice. Even though anyone with two braincells to rub together can see that death for working on an arbitrarily off-limit day is an inequitable punishment that no sane society should enforce.
Tumah
Veteran Member
The part that I was thinking of says
"Rav Hama bar Haninah said, 'from the days of our fathers, yeshivah (study-hall) didn't stop from them. In Egypt they had yeshivah with them as it says, "go and gather the Elders of Israel (Ex. 3:16)". In the desert they had yeshivah with them as it says, "gather for me seventy men from the Elders of Israel (Num. 11:16). Abraham was old and sitting in yeshivah as it says, "And Abraham was old coming in days (Gen. 24:1)"...
There is also a passage in the Zohar Chadash
Rabi Yosi says, "G-d forbid, they didn't forget the Torah! Rather G-d said, 'if I tell them to keep My whole Torah, they'll remove the whole yoke (of the Torah) like others that say, "and the knowledge of Your ways, we didn't desire (Job 21:14). Rather, I'll give them a few things and they'll keep that until one will come who will keep all of it. And that is Abraham as it says, "Because Abraham listened to My voice and kept My watchings, My commandments, My statutes and my Torah (Gen. 26:5)." That once he learned the Torah from Shem, he accepted on himself all the commandments. Therefore G-d specified for him all the commandments of the Torah.
I should also add that this is not the only opinion. There is also another brought in Midrash Rabbah that he was given special help from G-d.
...and until now the Torah wasn't given. And it says, "And he kept My watchings (Gen. 26:5). From where did Abraham learn the Torah? Rabi Shimon says, 'his two kidneys became like to pitchers of water and they were overflowing with Torah. And how do you know so? As it says, "Even at night, my kidneys admonish me (Psa. 16:7)".' Rabi Levi says, he learned it from himself as it says, "From his ways will be satiated an impure heart, and above him a good man (Pro. 14:14)
And there's a few other sources that more or less says the same thing as this one here. The opinions don't necessarily contradict, but I guess we can take them at face value for now.
Of course not. I said he studied by Shem and Eber, not his father.
Because according to the Midrash he was already displaying some prophetic ability when he killed the Egyptian. On the words "and he looked here and there (Ex. 2:12)" there is a Midrash that says that with his prophetic ability he looked through all the descendants that would ever come out of this person and saw that none would every be worthy, so he killed him.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Thanks for the heads up...?
Tumah
Veteran Member
I don't think...
Tumah
Veteran Member
A debate. Do you need me to repeat the things that were said?
Tumah
Veteran Member
I do. But only if you add context, relevance to what we were discussing and elucidation of whatever it was you were trying to say.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
God said that He never changes. So maybe His laws are still in effect. The difference is that God will do the punishing when He makes the final judgement on mankind. In the past He let people do the dirty work for Him but now He is waiting to do it Himself on that final judgement day. People who believe God's laws are done away will be greatly surprised to find out that they cannot just do whatever they want and not face punishment.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I most certainly do think being killed over a silly law is murder. A man picked up sticks on the wrong day. How can death possibly be justified?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Why and when did god decide to take a break?
Tumah
Veteran Member
Within the context of the Torah (and that is the context that the OP's case is in) the person that was killed was not murdered because his death was justified by the transgression of the Law for breaking the Sabbath.
Your personal feelings on the issue doesn't change what the commandment not to murder means within the context of the Torah.