Inherited sin: yes or no

[Demonslayer]

oww the gathering society speaks for itself and are very load but dare to dream....

Say what now?

 

[Demonslayer]

I can try.

and when I joined the forum I did post in straightforward terms......
but there was objection
and warnings

You gotta be you! Say what you want let the haters be damned. Figuratively of course.

 

[viole]

Ok...good for you and better for you if you never have a doubt.

So, can I use the fact that I am very confident that God does not exist, as evidence that God does not, in fact, exist?

If not, what is all this talking of confidence = evidence?

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

so you have no consequence pending your last breath.

and for any misdeed you have escaped.....none follow you.....

and you do not anticipate escaping that box or the hole in the ground where it will lay?

Of course not.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Tranquil Servant]

Eh? Do you mean Almighty God has enabled us to choose to be a believer or a disbeliever?

No not exactly...just cause a person believes in God doesn't mean that person will make it to heaven....even satan worshipers believe in God..

Adam, peace be with him, was naturally a believer .. however his 'God given nature' did not allow him to live in paradise .. yes, we can achieve paradise after death, but we won't be in exactly the same circumstances as now.
Perhaps you think that Adam couldn't make it, but you can?

But Adam and Eve did live in Paradise- right after their creation....And yes Adam was naturally a believer but he still got forced out of Paradise...and I know we won't be in the same circumstances in heaven because this flesh we have is corrupted and will die so Adam definitely returned to a state of purity in heaven after he died- hopefully most of us will make it to heaven and a state of purity.

Never mind .. you wish to see it your way, and I see it my way.

Trust me...I totally know and understand both perceptions...I just choose to believe the one that makes more sense to me....but I don't think you understand the Christian perspective....it's ok tho...like you said...you wanna see it your way...

 

[jerry greer]

where one or more gather in jesus name though society may be a million people or websites

 

[Tranquil Servant]

Agreed about what may feel right for me may not feel right for you. I carry that to what IS right for me may not BE right for you. If I choose a simple life with a simple job, and I'm happy with that life, I probably wasn't meant to have a high-pressure big money job. If, on the other hand, I have a simple life and a simple job, but feel a longing for more and feel jealous of people with more money, perhaps I chose the wrong career. I think people almost always feel some sort of dissonance when they are living in a way that doesn't suit them.

Spiritually I think this stuff also takes care of itself. I was raised Catholic but from a very early age I remember being sort of creeped out by church and thinking the adults prattling on about God watching me and punishing me for anything I did wrong was a load of horsepoo. I hated church, never felt comforted, and as a very young child was always frustrated by people telling me to "talk to God" when I knew damn well inside no one was listening and I never got any sort of response. This was spiritual dissonance. Others have the reverse situation...raised irreligiously but feel some sort of empty place that they eventually fill with religion.

I think each person seeks their own comfort zone in most aspects of life, and I think in the vast majority of cases if there is a disconnect between what they are doing and what they "should" be doing to make them happy, the person feels it.

I get what you're saying but once again...I don't think most people are in tuned with (their) spirituality...spirituality is not something that's easy to understand....and it's easy to confuse the spiritual for the physical....after all, it is an unseen world.
Which brings me to another question...do you believe you have a soul?

 

[Demonslayer]

spirituality is not something that's easy to understand....and it's easy to confuse the spiritual for the physical....after all, it is an unseen world.

I suppose this is true. For some anyway.

I don't think most people are in tuned with (their) spirituality

And this may be true, but what I think I'm saying is if people aren't in tune with their spirituality either 1) they feel it somehow, they aren't comfortable...thinking of all those who say they are "seeking" something or 2) it doesn't matter. In the second case, if there is no discomfort and the person is happy, then even if someone is living outside their supposedly personally ideal spiritual framework or lifestyle, they can't realize it and there is no ill effect.

Let's see if I can put it another way. You seem to be saying people could be rolling along completely content and positive about life, but still somehow be living in a spiritually imperfect manner for them, and they just don't know it because they aren't in tune with their spirituality. My angle on that is if there is a manner of spiritual imperfection, people can always feel it somehow.

Which brings me to another question...do you believe you have a soul?

No, not in the literal sense. Not something that flies out of you when you die and acts as a personality lifeboat to some other world. I believe in the poetic idea of a soul being the (semi)unique nature of each human being or other animal.

 

[Tranquil Servant]

So, can I use the fact that I am very confident that God does not exist, as evidence that God does not, in fact, exist?

If not, what is all this talking of confidence = evidence?

Ciao

- viole

You had to have some sound information which caused you to believe what you believe and makes you confident in your belief

 

[jerry greer]

first 10 people outside if i went out would be watching me that way every day.....

 

[Tranquil Servant]

Let's see if I can put it another way. You seem to be saying people could be rolling along completely content and positive about life, but still somehow be living in a spiritually imperfect manner for them, and they just don't know it because they aren't in tune with their spirituality. My angle on that is if there is a manner of spiritual imperfection, people can always feel it somehow.

IDK....cause I guess it also depends on a person's belief or interpretation of the soul...if a person doesn't even believe they have a soul could they ever feel spiritually imperfect? It also goes hand in hand with the person's belief and the information which lead that person to be confident in their belief.

 

[Tranquil Servant]

No, not in the literal sense. Not something that flies out of you when you die and acts as a personality lifeboat to some other world. I believe in the poetic idea of a soul being the (semi)unique nature of each human being or other animal.

So... not even like a life energy?
I Don't understand....describe (semi)unique nature?

 

[Sabour]

We cannot and will not make it to heaven with just having faith and doing good deeds

I watched a youtube video yesterday and remembered our discussion.

Saying what you said, I see that you neglected a verse in the bible. why is that ?

Matthew 5:19

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Tranquil Servant]

I watched a youtube video yesterday and remembered our discussion.

Saying what you said, I see that you neglected a verse in the bible. why is that ?

Matthew 5:19

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

What does this verse have to do with our discussion?

 

[Sabour]

What does this verse have to do with our discussion?

At some point I remember you saying that we can't make it into heaven by good deeds (along with the belief in God). Is that true?

I thought that the verse I quoted shows otherwise

 

[Tranquil Servant]

At some point I remember you saying that we can't make it into heaven by good deeds (along with the belief in God). Is that true?

I thought that the verse I quoted shows otherwise

No....the verse you quoted is from the Sermon on the Mount when Jesus is telling his apostles how he came to fulfill the messianic prophesy and teaches them (and others) the true meaning of righteousness and the Law. The Word of God is the Law (of the old testament) which is a combination of prophesies, covenants, promises, examples and commandments (and more).
When I said you cannot enter heaven by just having faith and doing good deeds, I meant that yes having faith in God and doing good deeds as a result of your faith is ok but only if you understand what it means to have faith and be "good." I believe Jesus is the Messiah promised by God and prophesied by the Prophets of the old testament and I believe that Jesus was the personification and manifestation of the Word of God and HIS definition of righteousness.....in the same chapter you quoted he says that he came to fulfill the Law and in John 1:1 it's says that Jesus is the Word of God that became flesh so in my belief to have faith in God is to believe that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah and physical manifestation of God’s promise and Word and believing in his role, purpose, and sacrifice.

 

[Sabour]

No....the verse you quoted is from the Sermon on the Mount when Jesus is telling his apostles how he came to fulfill the messianic prophesy and teaches them (and others) the true meaning of righteousness and the Law. The Word of God is the Law (of the old testament) which is a combination of prophesies, covenants, promises, examples and commandments (and more).
When I said you cannot enter heaven by just having faith and doing good deeds, I meant that yes having faith in God and doing good deeds as a result of your faith is ok but only if you understand what it means to have faith and be "good." I believe Jesus is the Messiah promised by God and prophesied by the Prophets of the old testament and I believe that Jesus was the personification and manifestation of the Word of God and HIS definition of righteousness.....in the same chapter you quoted he says that he came to fulfill the Law and in John 1:1 it's says that Jesus is the Word of God that became flesh so in my belief to have faith in God is to believe that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah and physical manifestation of God’s promise and Word and believing in his role, purpose, and sacrifice.

So would agree to say that he was the messiah, and a prophet like the other prophets who came before him? Or you believe he has some of God's attributes ?

What did you mean by sacrifice ?

 

[Tranquil Servant]

So would agree to say that he was the messiah, and a prophet like the other prophets who came before him? Or you believe he has some of God's attributes ?

What did you mean by sacrifice ?

Yes, I believe he is the Messiah and a Prophet because a Prophet is- In popular usage, someone who is believed to foretell the future. So he is a prophet because he prophesied but he is also the Messiah which is greater than a prophet...read Isaiah 9:1-7, Isaiah 42:1, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 32, Daniel 9:25, Zechariah 12:10-13, Malachi 3:1-6, Micah 4.
I believe Jesus is God's Word, promise, love, mercy, wisdom, and righteousness manifested in the flesh.....the flesh is just a vessel but everything else is God and the flesh was necessary to save mankind not only by living as God's example (manifestation) of righteousness for mankind but by also being the sacrificial Lamb of the Old Testament Law.

 

[Sabour]

Yes, I believe he is the Messiah and a Prophet because a Prophet is- In popular usage, someone who is believed to foretell the future. So he is a prophet because he prophesied but he is also the Messiah which is greater than a prophet...read Isaiah 9:1-7, Isaiah 42:1, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 32, Daniel 9:25, Zechariah 12:10-13, Malachi 3:1-6, Micah 4.
I believe Jesus is God's Word, promise, love, mercy, wisdom, and righteousness manifested in the flesh.....the flesh is just a vessel but everything else is God and the flesh was necessary to save mankind not only by living as God's example (manifestation) of righteousness for mankind but by also being the sacrificial Lamb of the Old Testament Law.

Where is the difference between what we believe about Jesus peace be upon him and what you believe ?

 

[Tranquil Servant]

Where is the difference between what we believe about Jesus peace be upon him and what you believe ?

Sorry it took so long for me to respond but the difference is exactly everything that I already mentioned in my post you quoted.
Isaiah 40 talks about God saving his people which is exactly what a (or the) Messiah is......a savior. The Messiah has a much bigger role in the bible than just bringing a message. If you can find the time to do some of your own research on the sacrificial lamb in the Bible, you'll understand more about what I mean.