Inherited sin: yes or no

[Latewish]

Peace and blessings to all. I started to ponder upon this subject after my husband (who is Muslim) and I watched a debate with the well known writer, public speaker and missionary Ahmed Hoosen Deedat. I am Christian and while I acknowledge Mr. Deedat had valid points and is very knowledgeable, I can't help but to ask more....questions that I haven't heard anyone ask like...
According to Islam...
1. Was Adam and Eve created in this flesh we have? (I know they were created from dust or clay) were they bound to die just as we are bound to die?
2. Will those who make it to paradise physically transform turning this flesh into a new glorious body?
3. And if so, why? If this flesh we have isn't tainted and sin isn't inherited then why would our bodies have to transform in order to enter heaven?

If all we need to enter heaven is to have done more good deeds than bad deeds, then why would or bodies need to transform. Especially if God made Adam and Eve in this flesh and according to the Quran they were living in the paradise before they were casted out which brings me to another question....
According to Islam....
If all we need to be in God's good grace is to have done more good deeds than bad ones, then why did God cast Adam and Eve out of the paradise after they were tricked by satan and God accepted their repentance. Why would he let us into paradise after all the sins we have committed if he casted Adam and Eve out after only one sin which was initiated by satan? Repentance is a good deed...isn't it? And I'm sure by the time they committed that one sin, Adam and Eve had already done way more good deeds. They obeyed God upto that point....right? And even when they sinned, it was because they were tricked by satan. Isn't God the most merciful? According to the scriptures, God knew satan would try to trick them and that's why God warned them so intensely. So why would God cast them out of the paradise and punish them so severely for something that he knew would happen; punish them so severely even after he accepted their repentance? It just sounds like God isn't that merciful. How can we make it into paradise? Adam and Eve were cast OUT for one sin so how will we make it INTO paradise with all the sins we have and will continue to commit intentionally and unintentionally?

Yes, Adam and Eve had the same flesh we have, and they were bound to die.
In paradise if you wish to look like an angel you will. What ever you wish before you wish it will be granted, you wanna a glorious body, super body. No one will complain in paradise, so don't worry about the transformation worry about getting there. In hell there will be a continuous body change, whenever the skin is burnt a new skin will emerge.
(Those who disbelieve in Our Signs, We shall soon cause them to enter Fire. As often as their skins are burnt up, WE shall give them in exchange other skins that they may continue to taste the punishment. Surely, ALLAH is Mighty and Wise)

Doing good deeds is not enough, first you must believe in God and the hereafter and his angels and his revelations and all his prophets and obey his commandments to win god's approval.

If god returned Adam and Eve to paradise after they repented, Cain would have killed his brother Abel in paradise and that's a sin punishable only by hill not earth.
The sin of the apple was just a preparation test. God created Adam to inherit earth not to stay in paradise and that's why Satan hates Adam, because he deprived him from his position, Satan was the keeper of earth thousands of years before the creation of Adam.
God wanted to show Adam his enemies and how they work. He learned the temptation of the forbidden (the apple) and the temptation of the devil and the temptation of the woman, he learned that the woman is weaker to the temptation of the devil and the forbidden and that he was weaker to the temptation of the woman. He also experienced fear, anger, failure and sadness and then god taught him repentance and forgiveness. Even after that, Adam continued learning and continued falling in other sins as it's his nature as a man to make mistakes and Satan was still after him, he kept learning from his mistakes and repenting. The apple was just his first sin, he did not become perfect after it.
After creation we all must go through this process, god wants to filter out the best and but them in paradise and the rest will go through a much harder process which is hell for punishment and purification. Paradise and hell are not for ever, god never said that, he said we will be immortal in hell and paradise, meaning we wont die. If hell was for ever, Satan would not have disobeyed god. Satan believes in god and knows god batter than we do, he worships only god, his enmity is not with god it's with humans. His zeal for god made him an enemy to humans. Before Adam, Lucifer was the most loved and the nearest to god, but he fall in a sin the sin of arrogance, he treated even angels with arrogance, thinking that because he was made of fire and close to god his batter than angels that were made of light. So god created Adam from dust clay and gave him the position of Satan. Imagine the shock of Satan and the shame he felt when he heard that, he who thought was greater than Angeles was replaced by mud. And it got worst for Satan he was commanded to bow to the mud. Only the creator is great, god can turn an insect to an angel and vise versa. God made you a human and not an insect, feel thankful not great. And so Satan refused to bow to Adam and said that he is greater than him and asked god to give him time to prove it. Refusing a direct command was even a greater sin, so god cursed him and cast him out and gave him the time he asked for and promised him and who will follow him hell, and so a competition between men and devils started, we will not return to god until this competition is over.

If we stayed in paradise we would have never experienced hardship and evil, how could we know that we are in a blessing? God is not the genie of the lamp, he did not make as to put as in paradise and obey our wishes, he made as to obey an worship him, and for that he will reward us. If you sin a million times and then return to god and truly repent god will forgive. And god is the most merciful, without god's mercy man will die and become dust.

 

[serp777]

Yes, Adam and Eve had the same flesh we have, and they were bound to die.
In paradise if you wish to look like an angel you will. What ever you wish before you wish it will be granted, you wanna a glorious body, super body. No one will complain in paradise, so don't worry about the transformation worry about getting there. In hell there will be a continuous body change, whenever the skin is burnt a new skin will emerge.
(Those who disbelieve in Our Signs, We shall soon cause them to enter Fire. As often as their skins are burnt up, WE shall give them in exchange other skins that they may continue to taste the punishment. Surely, ALLAH is Mighty and Wise)

Doing good deeds is not enough, first you must believe in God and the hereafter and his angels and his revelations and all his prophets and obey his commandments to win god's approval.

If god returned Adam and Eve to paradise after they repented, Cain would have killed his brother Abel in paradise and that's a sin punishable only by hill not earth.
The sin of the apple was just a preparation test. God created Adam to inherit earth not to stay in paradise and that's why Satan hates Adam, because he deprived him from his position, Satan was the keeper of earth thousands of years before the creation of Adam.
God wanted to show Adam his enemies and how they work. He learned the temptation of the forbidden (the apple) and the temptation of the devil and the temptation of the woman, he learned that the woman is weaker to the temptation of the devil and the forbidden and that he was weaker to the temptation of the woman. He also experienced fear, anger, failure and sadness and then god taught him repentance and forgiveness. Even after that, Adam continued learning and continued falling in other sins as it's his nature as a man to make mistakes and Satan was still after him, he kept learning from his mistakes and repenting. The apple was just his first sin, he did not become perfect after it.
After creation we all must go through this process, god wants to filter out the best and but them in paradise and the rest well go through a much harder process which is hell for punishment and purification. Paradise and hell are not for ever, god never said that, he said we will be immortal in hell and paradise, meaning we wont die. If hell was for ever, Satan would not have disobeyed god. Satan believes in god and knows god batter than we do, he worships only god, his enmity is not with god it's with humans. His zeal for god made him an enemy to humans. Before Adam, Lucifer was the most loved and the nearest to god, but he fall in a sin the sin of arrogance, he treated even angels with arrogance, thinking that because he was made of fire and close to god his batter than angels that were made of light. So god created Adam from dust clay and gave him the position of Satan. Imagine the shock of Satan and the shame he felt when he heard that, he who thought was greater than Angeles was replaced by mud. And it got worst for Satan he was commanded to bow to the mud. Only the creator is great, god can turn an insect to an angel and vise versa. God made you a human and not an insect, feel thankful not great. And so Satan refused to bow to Adam and said that he is greater than him and asked god to give him time to prove it. Refusing a direct command was even a greater sin, so god cursed him and cast him out and gave him the time he asked for and promised him and who will follow him hell, and so a competition between men and devils started, we will not return to god until this competition is over.

If we stayed in paradise we would have never experienced hardship and evil, how could we know that we are in a blessing? God is not the genie of the lamp, he did not make as to put as in paradise and obey our wishes, he made as to obey an worship him, and for that he will reward us. If you sin a million times and then return to god and truly repent god will forgive. And god is the most merciful, without god's mercy man will die and become dust.

Adam and Eve didn't exist. Are you saying the human race started from incest? There were always at least a few thousand human beings in existence to ensure genetic diversity and prevent the gene pool from collapsing due to genetic diseases. THe ancestors of our species gradually evolved over time such that many humans gradually transitioned into the homo sapien species simulatenously. That basically makes the idea of inherent sin stupid and inconsistent with science.

 

[Latewish]

Adam and Eve didn't exist. Are you saying the human race started from incest? There were always at least a few thousand human beings in existence to ensure genetic diversity and prevent the gene pool from collapsing due to genetic diseases. THe ancestors of our species gradually evolved over time such that many humans gradually transitioned into the homo sapien species simulatenously. That basically makes the idea of inherent sin stupid and inconsistent with science.

We are not discussing atheism here.
Incest is a sin and forbidden by god in all three religions. But there was no incest in Adam's case, Eve was made from Adam's rib only, so god must have add it more things to fulfill her creation, and balanced her gene so that she can mate with Adam. God made science, so when god commands, science obeys. As for the inherited sin we Muslims don't believe in it.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

We are not discussing atheism here.
Incest is a sin and forbidden by god in all three religions. But there was no incest in Adam's case, Eve was made from Adam's rib only, so god must have add it more things to fulfill her creation, and balanced her gene so that she can mate with Adam. God made science, so when god commands, science obeys. As for the inherited sin we Muslims don't believe in it.

That last line is all important, inherited sin is not an Islamic concept. We do not condemn all woman kind for a single action, unlike the christians and the jews.

 

[serp777]

We are not discussing atheism here.
Incest is a sin and forbidden by god in all three religions. But there was no incest in Adam's case, Eve was made from Adam's rib only, so god must have add it more things to fulfill her creation, and balanced her gene so that she can mate with Adam. God made science, so when god commands, science obeys. As for the inherited sin we Muslims don't believe in it.

LOl that's not atheism, its biology and evolution. If Eve was made from Adam's rib then adam and eve would share similar DNA. You do know that the theory of evolution is essentially a fact for all intesive purposes right?

Check this out from wiki

Not the biblical Eve[edit]
Owing to its figurative reference to the first woman in the Biblical Book of Genesis, the Mitochondrial Eve theory initially met with enthusiastic endorsement from some young earth creationists, who viewed the theory as a validation of the biblical creation story. Some even went so far as to claim that the Mitochondrial Eve theory disproved evolution.[37][38][39] However, the theory does not suggest any relation between biblical Eve and Mitochondrial Eve because Mitochondrial Eve:

• is not a fixed individual
• had a mother
• was not the only woman of her time, and
• Y-chromosomal Adam is unlikely to have been her sexual partner, or indeed to have been contemporaneous to her.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve#Not_the_biblical_Eve

 

[Latewish]

LOl that's not atheism, its biology and evolution. If Eve was made from Adam's rib then adam and eve would share similar DNA. You do know that the theory of evolution is essentially a fact for all intesive purposes right?

Check this out from wiki



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve#Not_the_biblical_Eve

An atheist or Scientologist, Darwinism or infidel or pagan, it's all the same, you don't believe in the revelations of god and you don't believe in his prophets. Muslims, Jews and Christians are faithful people who believe in god and his revelations, but there is some differences and disagreements that we are debating, one of them is the inherited sin. ِAnd you jumped in saying Adam and Eve did not exist and you want me to check the wiki, it's old news for me, And we are not discussing it here. But since you insist.

The DNA was found in the 50's and the code was broken in the 60's, god before thousands of years had forbid incest, he did not explain why, because people wont understand the details, but the reason was the DNA.

(23) Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father´s sisters, Mother´s sisters; brother´s daughters, sister´s daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives´ mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;- (An-Nisaa 23)

As for Adam and Eve they were made by god who made science, so it was easy for him to adjust the gene code, maybe when science advances, scientist will be able to adjust the gene and maybe they will never. Do you know about unexplained phenomena in science? We believe and trust in the word of god, because we so the light, so we are not going to take your word or the word of incomplete science over the word of god the creator and holder of complete science.

 

[Demonslayer]

But there was no incest in Adam's case, Eve was made from Adam's rib only, so god must have add it more things to fulfill her creation

So let's say this excuse somehow allows Adam and Eve's mating to not be considered incest.

What happens in the next generation? How many kids do Adam and Eve have? And how do those kids procreate without it being incest?

 

[Latewish]

So let's say this excuse somehow allows Adam and Eve's mating to not be considered incest.

What happens in the next generation? How many kids do Adam and Eve have? And how do those kids procreate without it being incest?

Again god interfered and made it possible, he did it once he can do it twice and more. Eve gave birth to a twin, a sister and Able and then second birth, another twin a sister and Cain, when time came for them to mate god ordered that Able shall merry Cain's twin sister and Cain must take Able's twin, but Cain refused and wanted to merry his twin, which was better looking than Able's twin, So Adam said to them they must each offer a sacrifice to god, and they did and god accepted Able's sacrifice, and that was the reason why Cain killed Able. So god was solving the problem of the gene step by step generation by generation. the farther the generation the farther the separation was. Yea, incest did happen in a way, but no harm happened, because it was an exceptional case and it was not forbidden yet.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If there is this "just god" who watches over us and punishes or rewards us based on what we did in life, then I cannot believe that this god would set us up to fail just because we were born. It means the children who are not even born yet are paying for the crimes of their parents, and there is nothing just or merciful about that, let alone the problems when you consider the logic and reason behind it.

 

[Thief]

If there is this "just god" who watches over us and punishes or rewards us based on what we did in life, then I cannot believe that this god would set us up to fail just because we were born. It means the children who are not even born yet are paying for the crimes of their parents, and there is nothing just or merciful about that, let alone the problems when you consider the logic and reason behind it.

no...it means the 'set-up' will produce a few......that find the way
the rest of us (though we have freewill) will fail to find that mindset

some techniques to find something unique ...fail

 

[Shadow Wolf]

no...it means the 'set-up' will produce a few......that find the way
the rest of us (though we have freewill) will fail to find that mindset

Personally, I find such a mentality to be arrogant. We're just a bunch of confused apes trying to figure things out, and as far as anyone is concerned, and guesses about a god or an afterlife are just as good as any others.
But when you set a child up for failure when the parent is in the wrong, and then punish the child even though you stacked the odds against them, such behaviors are not the ways of someone who is just and merciful.Though any gods that may be would probably be way beyond human comprehension, if we are going to use human words and concepts then we should equally apply human standards when we use these human words to describe this alleged god.