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Insurrectionist removed from office under the 14th amendment.
- Thread starter fantome profane
- Start date
My position is that the government has been transforming for four decades from one that attended to the needs of its citizens to one that attended to the needs of a small number of wealthy and powerful interests, which view people as capital. It became more like that under Reagan than it had been before, and the subsequent decades have seen periods of Democratic rule (Clinton, Obama, Biden), where this process would slow and at times reverse a bit (minimum wage increase, ACA), always with intense Republican obstructionism, followed by periods of Republican rule (Bush II, Trump), where the country accelerated its transformation to plutocracy. At the same time, a contempt for the law was growing, as presidents routinely got a pass for their excesses. And here we are today, with extreme income equality and wealth concentration, a work life so miserable that there has been a quiet revolution there among workers.
My concern is that if the Republicans seize control of election outcomes, there will never be those periods of slowing and stopping the transformation, and no effective resistance to the Republicans coming for what little workers and retirees still have in the service of the plutocrats and kleptocrats. I expect that the Supreme Court is now in the service of this cause judging by its 2022 rulings regarding guns, the EPA, and abortion. These people have showed us who they are, but too many voters either can't see what that is, or actually embrace it. There's a strain of Americans that simply wants to burn the world - scorched earth malcontents. They think not in terms of improving their own lot, but in "owning the libs" and making their lives worse.
I fully expect those voters combined with the dirty election tricks from the Republicans and ongoing rightwing media indoctrination will result in the Republicans returning to power indefinitely and its dystopian vision manifest without much opposition or chance of correcting the problem democratically, the entire point of the exercise in crippling democracy.
I'd say that that was what they used to be, and I don't think much of either of those presidents, the first two of the criminal presidents in my day to get a walk. The Republicans had Lincoln, T. Roosevelt, and Eisenhower as presidents of the people, but that's about it. Nixon made a small effort with the EPA, something Republicans of today loathe.
Yes. If it takes a fortune to run, only the very wealthy mavericks can run without the approval of either party. And if it takes a fortune to win, then candidates are corruptible. But that's not a flaw. That's a feature.
I don't believe that America lacks for answers. It lacks a reliable means of implementing them. How often do we read every day some suggestion to correct some problem that will never come to pass. That's not inefficiency or indifference. That's interference. The unseen powers don't want what the people want, and thwart their efforts. These people are blissfully unaware of this, and keep turning to the Republicans for help, people who see them as organic factory units to be exploited for profit like a tractor, slave, or plow horse. Capital, things you spend as little as possible on to keep them working, and no more. Things with no inherent value, and no value at all if they can't work. They're just the means to an end.
That, in my opinion, is who the elected Republicans represent. The ancien régime of pre-revolutionary France is a model for that kind of concentrated wealth, power, and privilege. They have no use for Americans' silly thoughts about voting, egalitarianism, guaranteed personal rights, a strong middle class with a secure social safety net, workplace safety, environmental protection, etc.. So, offering these people suggestions on how to secure those things would be in vain, as they would actually labor to squelch them if they got any traction.
This is conservatism in its most extreme, not the mid-20th century conservatism, which, as I'm sure you know, is so-called classical liberalism. This vision of conservatism is so right-wing it's off the American bird, and I expect it to catch Americans largely unaware. As I indicated, I expect that they'll vote for their enemies without understanding what they're voting for.
I think that if I were a young American today, I'd be looking for a way to become a citizen of virtually any other different western democracy. Why live under a government that works against you when you can have what the western Europeans, Aussies and Kiwis, and Canadians get for their efforts. What awaits Americans after a lifetime of working?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You really believe that Democrats are the ultimate answer?
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...t_its_become_the_party_of_wealth_146083.html#!
Maybe you need to look at class constituency.
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here, although my view is that the plutocrats and kleptocrats have their hooks in both parties. Even if there might be slight shades of difference between the Democrats and the Republicans, they tend to focus on issues which don't really challenge or infringe on Wall Street, corporate America, big banking, or any of the other powerful interests which drive economic, foreign, and military policies. Of course, there are other issues which may be important but don't really have much of an impact on the profit margins of capitalists, so the parties are obviously free to differentiate themselves on those issues. It seems the purpose of this charade between the Democrats and the Republicans is just so much drama to keep the masses entertained and distracted, while the plutocrats and kleptocrats continue to operate. As you mention Reagan and the past four decades, I think we'd probably make similar observations about the direction the country has taken during that period.
I honestly don't object to more people recognizing and realizing that there are significant flaws to the democratic system, creating certain vulnerabilities and weaknesses, which might lead some to conclude that it's "fragile." I happen to think that it was broken a long time ago, and Trump's lunatic fringe turned out to be an unfortunate symptom demonstrating just how broken it had become.
Even Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt had their faults, although they also did a lot of good things. Eisenhower is harder to figure, since he didn't really join the Republican Party until late in life. I think the Democrats wanted him to run as a Democrat, but he ended up choosing the Republicans. Although he seemed more moderate than many of the Republicans of his time.
And that's how we end up with plutocracy and kleptocracy.
I think they're looking back to earlier times in America, whether it's idealizing the 1950s, or maybe the old west. Of course, these weren't really the "good old days" as people might think, but it seems to have been woven into a mythic portrait of Americana which figures prominently in many people's mindsets. Even liberals might get caught up in it to some degree, speaking of the Founders with reverence and awe at times, or making similar appeals to patriotism and Americanism.
I've said in earlier threads that, if Americanism is a religion, then it's as if there's an ongoing dispute between rival sects.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Far from it. But it makes no sense at all to support a party that is far worse.
No. I think that there is no answer for America. The die is cast.
The Democrats would be the answer to creeping fascism and theocracy in America if they had the support of the voters. I lean more with Bernie than mainstream Democrats, and more with mainstream Democrats than decent Republicans like Cheney and Kinzinger, and much more with Republicans who support democracy and the rule of law than the much larger authoritarian, antidemocratic contingent of Republicans.
But if you read my comment, I don't think even the Democrats can help America, because they will likely become disempowered indefinitely before the end of the decade. Unless something changes dramatically in your worldview, you'll be one of the people that votes for them. Presumably, you disagree radically with me and my vision for America's future, since I expect you (and tens of millions of other Americans) to welcome these people back into power. I understand that my views a very pessimistic, and therefore difficult for many to countenance dispassionately. But I'd like to hear the counterargument that is more than just hand waiving and reliance on the pendulum swinging back as it has in the past.
Why is this vision incorrect if you think is? Where's the argument that the Republicans would never do that because they're just not the kind of ruthless and selfish people that I say they are with examples of their human decency and dedication to American principles and traditions that are more than lip service? Where's the argument that the people would never let this happen despite it having happened repeatedly because they're just too sophisticated as citizens to fall for that? Where's the argument that even if that happened, the American people could remedy the matter with their votes and third parties and petitions and referenda?
************
I believe that people need to consider that the world is transforming, and to make adaptations accordingly. For young Americans, I suggest relocating to another western country for reasons just given. America very likely just won't be there for you in forty years. Why take that chance?
And for anybody living where weather is a problem now, especially if they own a home there, I suggest that they consider living in another part of the country or world now while their property still has most or all of its value and is still insurable. Once people realize that a particular environment is no longer habitable, perhaps because of annual wildfires or extreme heat or drought, or flooding, it may be too late to sell for present value or to insure.
I would also adjust for a permanently falling standard of living for working class Americans who don't presently have much play in their budgets, which means rethinking whether what has been affordable will remain so. This will likely sneak up on many, who will find themselves unable to make ends meet without giving up many of things they're used to like annual family vacations, ATVs, private schools, summer camp, $60,000 weddings, private universities, indiscriminate use of air conditioning and even having fewer children. I look at the Mexicans around me, who have lived on much less than the expats around them.
Their lives are based on that lower income. They live simple lives, and seem very happy living them. We know several of our neighbors and see how they live. They don't come back from the market with bags of groceries. Rice, beans, tortillas, and a little meat are the bulk of every meal, with perhaps some soup. They don't buy disposable diapers and aren't covered in tattoos. I've never seen one use a credit card. I've never seen a new car. Clothes are never fashionable, and if it's a designer label or got printing on it, it's a knock-off or second hand.
They do tend to have Internet and satellite TV, but not always. Yet, they are clean, happy, and well fed. Hopefully, Americans will remain wealthier than what I just described, but some won't, and I expect that they won't make the adjustments to this other, less expensive way of living before hitting insurmountable debt and it being imposed on them through homelessness, for example. People living on the streets make that adjustment perforce. Better to do so gradually and comfortably before it sneaks up. And it can begin now. No more $150 facials or mani-pedis. No more or much less drinking out. If you're spending a bundle on heat and air or commuting to work, maybe moving is part of the answer. Maybe you don't need a third child after all because you can't save or pay down bills with the additional expense.
The point is that if things really are moving in that direction, and I expect it to even under Democratic rule, but more so and more quickly under Republican rule, then the one who can foresee that and adapt by design now will fare better than those who simply find themselves no longer able to meet the rent or utilities one day and with little or no reserve in savings or credit.
I posted the above 5 days ago, and I'm quite curious why, as with other similar posts, I never seem to get an answer. Curiouser and curiouser...
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is because many people do still have a sense of shame. They do know what they believe is wrong so they cannot say it out loud. If you want to know what Trumpist Republicans really believe all you need to do is to read the Texas state Republican Party Platform:I posted the above 5 days ago, and I'm quite curious why, as with other similar posts, I never seem to get an answer. Curiouser and curiouser...
https://texasgop.org/wp-content/upl...Platform-Committee-FINAL-REPORT-6-16-2022.pdf
Facepalm protection is highly recommended.
Funny, right there in the preamble (barely moments into starting to read), I discover "It is our solemn duty to [...] develop responsible citizens."
There's freedom for you -- Republicans are going to "develop" you the way they want you to be, not the way you ought to be free to be.
Most fitting, in the context of this couple of posts!
