Intelligent Design, why I can't believe it.

[Rolling_Stone]

Not at all. I think no one knows for sure what caused the universe to come into being.

No one may know for sure how the universe came into being, but it is not correct to say no one knows what caused it. Something that "comes into being" has being; it is not Being itself. Being and that what has being are inseparable, but they are not the same. If a being is experientially cognizant of Being-As-Is-Within-Itself, it can be said that they do know the what (Cause) even if they do not know the how.

If you do not know the what, so what? Does that mean others do not? You may simply be like the fish who does not see the water in which it swims--swimming in the sea of Being, but seeing only that what has being.

 

[Willamena]

From what I understand of the big bang theory, the forces where of much different strengths during the inital exansion and then later changed to what they are today as the universe continued to expand. Which if it is true would mean that the coin had to rotate many times befor it landed heads up and so the posibility was that it might have landed on tails. And this coin of the forces has many more sides than heads and tails.

Do you think those changes the forces underwent were "governed" by some "law(s)" though we mght not know what those are yet?

 

[Super Universe]

If humans are the Intelligent Designers, then I'm afraid that we have made a terrible mess.

Really? What mess? Do you think the universe is affected by our poverty, our wars, or anything else we do? No human has that power.

Our spirit (soul) is nothing more than God, and nothing less.

Referring to our soul as a human is like calling someone a Dodge just because they drive around an Intrepid for a while.

 

[Papersock]

Really? What mess? Do you think the universe is affected by our poverty, our wars, or anything else we do? No human has that power.

Our spirit (soul) is nothing more than God, and nothing less.

Referring to our soul as a human is like calling someone a Dodge just because they drive around an Intrepid for a while.

The universe isn't effected by us but our planet is. And we're pretty dependent on our planet.

 

[Papersock]

No one may know for sure how the universe came into being, but it is not correct to say no one knows what caused it. Something that "comes into being" has being; it is not Being itself. Being and that what has being are inseparable, but they are not the same. If a being is experientially cognizant of Being-As-Is-Within-Itself, it can be said that they do know the what (Cause) even if they do not know the how.

If you do not know the what, so what? Does that mean others do not? You may simply be like the fish who does not see the water in which it swims--swimming in the sea of Being, but seeing only that what has being.

I'm not so sure there is a difference between how and what. If we don't know what did it, we certainly don't know how it did it.

Just because I don't know what doesn't mean others do not. But I don't think anyone really knows. That is my view.

 

[Runlikethewind]

Do you think those changes the forces underwent were "governed" by some "law(s)" though we mght not know what those are yet?

Not necessarily. The changes could have, it seems, resulted in many different possible outcomes.

 

[love]

So how could a superintelligent being spring from nothingness? Who or what created god? Was there a first god? Are there an infinte number of gods?

What is nothingness? Would that be an infinite void, or would an infinite void be something? Where did the first God come from? Why would there be a need for an infinite number of Gods. If the universe is not infinite what comes next? Can man comprehend infinity, without begining or without end? The world itself tells us it had a begining so it must have been created. The possibility (odds) of it having the laws of physics that are in place that produce life and sustain it are alot more than a coin toss.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Creatorship can hardly be an attribute of an infinite and immutable God--it can't be something he decided to do somewhere in the past without some change taking place within himself. Rather, Creatorship is the aggregate of God's acting nature.

 

[Yerda]

Creatorship can hardly be an attribute of an infinite and immutable God--it can't be something he decided to do somewhere in the past without some change taking place within himself. Rather, Creatorship is the aggregate of God's acting nature.

Out of curiosity, how do you discover things like this?

 

[joeboonda]

Genesis 1

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Colossians 1:13

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

II Peter


3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Here we see that God created us, and His Son created us, (the deity of Christ), and that in the last days scoffers would be 'willingly ingorant' (dumb on purpose!) that by the word of God the heavens and the earth were created.

 

[Yerda]

Here we see that God created us, and His Son created us, (the deity of Christ), and that in the last days scoffers would be 'willingly ingorant' (dumb on purpose!) that by the word of God the heavens and the earth were created.

If you have the time, you might find that reading the mythology of a different tribe or culture will give you completely different conclusions with you no doubt ranked among the 'wilfully ignorant'.

How to decide who's right and who's not? I wonder what evidence would substantiate such an argument....

 

[joeboonda]

If you have the time, you might find that reading the mythology of a different tribe or culture will give you completely different conclusions with you no doubt ranked among the 'wilfully ignorant'.

How to decide who's right and who's not? I wonder what evidence would substantiate such an argument....

Your argument would be with the men who wrote the Bible, I simply quoted it.

 

[Yerda]

Your argument would be with the men who wrote the Bible, I simply quoted it.

Aren't they your words that I quoted?

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Out of curiosity, how do you discover things like this?

It's a combination of things, actually. The original thought comes from The URANTIA Book, but I never, ever, accept something from any source without giving it a lot of thought. My conclusion is in agreement with the book, but only after an especially intense period of wrestling because the idea challenged a long-standing anthropomorphic point of view involving time and beginnings.

The problem for me, as far as religion is concerned, was reconciling the unity of the infinite-eternal and the diversity I experience in life. I simply could not avoid concluding on my own what the book affirmed regarding the nature of Infinity: not only is God the unity of infinity, but there are also co-eternal differences within Him. God, if immutable, cannot be "First" in the sequential sense of the word, but is "First" by virtue of his relationship with other, co-eternal Absolutes.

God is the light and the prism, as it were, and has always been. There was never a beginning to spectra of his light else we would have to admit to him changing.

 

[freeman2008]

God states "I am who is". Creation is the manifestation of his existence. Satan can not create, he can only usurp. Those who are with him will end up in a place of nothingness, the opposite of that which is.

 

[Wotan]

God states "I am who is". Creation is the manifestation of his existence. Satan can not create, he can only usurp. Those who are with him will end up in a place of nothingness, the opposite of that which is.

A lot of assumptions there. On what basis do you KNOW:
YOUR god exists
A devil exists
What happens after death

Lot of stuff there for which there is NO evidence.
You forget something?

 

[gnostic]

Really? What mess? Do you think the universe is affected by our poverty, our wars, or anything else we do? No human has that power.

Who said anything about the universe? Was I referring to the universe?