Interested in Makkah- how does it operate?

[ronki23]

السلام عليكم

I'm interested in Makkah. As a non-Muslim, I know I may not go there unless I convert but I find the calligraphy and the art beautiful. I just wondered:

1. How do they know one's religion (even in KSA in general?). I hear you need to get a letter from the Mosque and approved by Saudi Arabia's government but in every country there are THOUSANDS of Mosques and many more being built daily. Plus if Imams have no more authority in this world, how do those from the Embassies know if one is a Muslim

2. Who 'works' at Makkah? Do people 'apply' there or only certain people may go?

3. Is the Ka'bah a meteor or is it from the mountains surrounding Makkah. Or is it from Eden in Iran?

4. Do Muslims not worry Ka'bah may erode if it's touched so regularly?

5. If Prophet Muhammed's tomb is cordoned off, do the people pray at the door to the tomb?

6. Do those who clean and maintain the tomb get to enter that area? Who exactly goes there?

7. The tomb itself is covered is it not? How come people can't go to the vicinity of the Tomb if it is already covered?

8. If Muslims hold Al Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock in high regard, how do they visit if Israeli stamps are banned on passports?

9. Who is allowed to be buried there?

10. What is inside the Ka'bah and who may enter? I've seen videos online but don't understand them

11. The most interesting question to me: how do they enter/exit the pilgrimage area if everyone is circling TOWARD the Ka'bah? How do they exit if that involves going against the flow of pilgrims?

 

[Sb1995]

if you are not muslim then why say aslam aliikum

 

[Union]

السلام عليكم

W/Salam ronki23 . Its really great to see you feeling interested about Makka .

1. How do they know one's religion (even in KSA in general?). I hear you need to get a letter from the Mosque and approved by Saudi Arabia's government but in every country there are THOUSANDS of Mosques and many more being built daily. Plus if Imams have no more authority in this world, how do those from the Embassies know if one is a Muslim.

They would never know .

2. Who 'works' at Makkah? Do people 'apply' there or only certain people may go?

People who holds Muslim aqama (work permit-green color).

3. Is the Ka'bah a meteor or is it from the mountains surrounding Makkah. Or is it from Eden in Iran?

Nothing like that but GOD , the Almighty called it HIS house .

4. Do Muslims not worry Ka'bah may erode if it's touched so regularly?

It has been there for thousands years but nothing happened so far ..

5. If Prophet Muhammed's tomb is cordoned off, do the people pray at the door to the tomb?

What do you mean ? Prophet's tomb is in Medina , not in Mecca .

6. Do those who clean and maintain the tomb get to enter that area? Who exactly goes there?

Not the cleaners . Saudi Royal family members only allowed to go in.

7. The tomb itself is covered is it not? How come people can't go to the vicinity of the Tomb if it is already covered?

According to Saudi custodians of the tomb people become too emotional and start doing Shirk (prostrating , crying loud , asking help to Prophet's tomb etc.) and hence they discourage to go to close or to stay long there .

8. If Muslims hold Al Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock in high regard, how do they visit if Israeli stamps are banned on passports?

This is more political than religious issue .

9. Who is allowed to be buried there?

Whomever dies there .

10. What is inside the Ka'bah and who may enter? I've seen videos online but don't understand them .

Nothing n only Saudi Royal families .

11. The most interesting question to me: how do they enter/exit the pilgrimage area if everyone is circling TOWARD the Ka'bah? How do they exit if that involves going against the flow of pilgrims?

Please clarify a bit more . I had been there couple of times and circumnavigated with millions without any problem practically in entering and exiting .

 

[Union]

You may enjoy this :

 

[ronki23]

السلام عليكم

W/Salam ronki23 . Its really great to see you feeling interested about Makka .



They would never know .




People who holds Muslim aqama (work permit-green color).



Nothing like that but GOD , the Almighty called it HIS house .



It has been there for thousands years but nothing happened so far ..




What do you mean ? Prophet's tomb is in Medina , not in Mecca .




Not the cleaners . Saudi Royal family members only allowed to go in.



According to Saudi custodians of the tomb people become too emotional and start doing Shirk (prostrating , crying loud , asking help to Prophet's tomb etc.) and hence they discourage to go to close or to stay long there .



This is more political than religious issue .



Whomever dies there .



Nothing n only Saudi Royal families .



Please clarify a bit more . I had been there couple of times and circumnavigated with millions without any problem practically in entering and exiting .

I don't fully understand some of your responses!

If the tomb area is cordoned off with gates, why is the tomb itself still covered?

What is the need for an extra covering? Who can enter this area and why?

Speaking of Muhammed, why aren't his relatives buried there?

Are there permanent staff who live in Makkah/Medina? Is there a lot of competition to get work there?

As for those who may visit Makkah, how do they know one is Muslim? Say if someone with knowledge of Islam and the Qu'ran tries to enter, would he get in? What if the Mosque the pilgrim visits is new and the Imam is newly qualified?

As for KSA-Israel issues, I don't fully understand. If one wants to visit the Dome and Al Aqsa and he wants to visit Makkah, how do they visit and return home? Have the Arabs not caused a huge problem this way- the primary reason Arabs have an issue with Israel is these pieces of land; if they themselves can't visit them, why do they restrict others? I know it's not really a Palestine issue as Jordan,Kuwait and KSA kicked out Palestinians themselves!!!

Anyway, if I offended anyone I am sorry. I think all religions have something to bring to the table. I find Islamic art and architecture really interesting

ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡ੝ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੪॥
My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both.

 

[DawudTalut]

السلام عليكم
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السلام عليكم
Peace be on you...You may be interested in these aspects too.

1= Construction of the Ka‘bah - at page 100

2= Ka’bah:23 Objectives of Its Making

3= Respectfully saying....In Islam, Allah is One, has no kind of parteners. According to Ahmadiyya Muslims, Ram and Khrishna were two pious Prophets of Allah.

Good wishes.

 

[Union]

Hi Ronki . There nothing that you said can offend anybody . You just have simple questions in your mind and you are asking them , that's all .

You see, most of the issues that you are asking are not within the fold of Islamic doctrines . The Saudi Government want like that and hence they imposed the rule . According to Qur'an , there is no value of Prophet's tomb , hence no ritual is remotely involved in it . Thanks .

 

[ronki23]

Hi Ronki . There nothing that you said can offend anybody . You just have simple questions in your mind and you are asking them , that's all .

You see, most of the issues that you are asking are not within the fold of Islamic doctrines . The Saudi Government want like that and hence they imposed the rule . According to Qur'an , there is no value of Prophet's tomb , hence no ritual is remotely involved in it . Thanks .

But I am not asking about the tomb, I just wonder why the area is cordoned off and there's an additional covering if there's no need for it (as the area is already away from the public). Who maintains and cleans it?

What were these sights like before Wahabbi Arabia? I hear the Ottomans were somewhat more open?

How do people work in Makkah/Medina, is there a lot of competition? As for entering, how do they really check?

 

[Smart_Guy]

السلام عليكم

I'm interested in Makkah. As a non-Muslim, I know I may not go there unless I convert but I find the calligraphy and the art beautiful. I just wondered:

1. How do they know one's religion (even in KSA in general?). I hear you need to get a letter from the Mosque and approved by Saudi Arabia's government but in every country there are THOUSANDS of Mosques and many more being built daily. Plus if Imams have no more authority in this world, how do those from the Embassies know if one is a Muslim

2. Who 'works' at Makkah? Do people 'apply' there or only certain people may go?

3. Is the Ka'bah a meteor or is it from the mountains surrounding Makkah. Or is it from Eden in Iran?

4. Do Muslims not worry Ka'bah may erode if it's touched so regularly?

5. If Prophet Muhammed's tomb is cordoned off, do the people pray at the door to the tomb?

6. Do those who clean and maintain the tomb get to enter that area? Who exactly goes there?

7. The tomb itself is covered is it not? How come people can't go to the vicinity of the Tomb if it is already covered?

8. If Muslims hold Al Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock in high regard, how do they visit if Israeli stamps are banned on passports?

9. Who is allowed to be buried there?

10. What is inside the Ka'bah and who may enter? I've seen videos online but don't understand them

11. The most interesting question to me: how do they enter/exit the pilgrimage area if everyone is circling TOWARD the Ka'bah? How do they exit if that involves going against the flow of pilgrims?

Hello there Ronki.

Please don't be offended by the Islamic rule of forbidding non Muslims from entering Makkah. I personally do not know the real reason, but I'm pretty much convinced that it protects Makkah from non Muslims wanting to do the sanctuary harm. Not all non Muslims are bad I know, just as Muslims also have bad people as we are all humans after all, but as a precaution as it is a delicate matter.

Here goes:

1- Residents' religions can be know because residence permit ID's mentioned the religion. Other than that, there is no way to know by regulations. Not sure if the check point allows entering for non Muslims carrying the passport only with no special permits. But if there is a regulation for that, then it would be a problem. So I suggest not risking. There also could be a penalty for entering Makkah for non Muslims. Not sure about that.

2- Makkah is a city just like any other. Anyone can work there as long as they are Muslims.

3- It is basically a building. But completely different than the building humans know.

4- Actually, through time it faced problems and renovated more than once. Muslims don't actually worship it, but they follow God's orders doing what you see they do. One of its main purposes is to give a unified direction for Muslims to direct their prayers to.

5- I guess more clarification is needed for this question. But Muslims do not pray to Muhammad. He is a prophet, not God. Actually, praying at tombs is forbidden in Islam (another subject). Prayer near the prophet's tomb is allowed only out of the boarders of it, and towards Makkah not facing the tomb if it was in a different direction. I mean it is okay to pray if the tomb was in between the worshiper and Makkah as long as the intention is pure.

6- Dunno

7- No idea

8- This is unfortunately affected by politics. No good answer can be given here I guess.

9- I don't know.

10- Same as above.

11- Pilgrimage to the Kabah takes place in a round shape and this does not really make any problem and has many entries and exits. It is like roundabouts in the streets, except the exits are connected to each other.

Now, I know it is embarrassing for a Saudi like me to not know some of the answers above, but am not really an open person that goes out and read much.

 

[ronki23]

السلام عليكم
Peace be on you...You may be interested in these aspects too.

1= Construction of the Ka‘bah - at page 100

2= Ka’bah:23 Objectives of Its Making

3= Respectfully saying....In Islam, Allah is One, has no kind of parteners. According to Ahmadiyya Muslims, Ram and Khrishna were two pious Prophets of Allah.

Good wishes.

R.e. point 3, I find the Ahmadiyyas very interesting. I will look into the link provided

If you look through my history, I have been looking into Sikhism as I was bought up in a Hindu household. I will never 'change' my mind regarding Hinduism. The Sikhs were pretty cool in the way they protected Hindus and Buddhists against Mughal Islamification (sorry but forceful conversion from any religion is not cool!). The Sikhs are pretty cool,

ਝਕੋ ਅਲਹ੝ ਪਾਰਬ੝ਰਹਮ ॥੫॥੩੪॥੪੫॥
The Muslim God Allah and the Hindu God Paarbrahm are one and the same.

But Hinduism has provided many stories and philosophical lessons so I can't fully say i'm Sikh as too many modern Sikhs opposed Hinduism!

 

[DawudTalut]

R.e. point 3, I find the Ahmadiyyas very interesting. I will look into the link provided

If you look through my history, I have been looking into Sikhism as I was bought up in a Hindu household. I will never 'change' my mind regarding Hinduism. The Sikhs were pretty cool in the way they protected Hindus and Buddhists against Mughal Islamification (sorry but forceful conversion from any religion is not cool!). The Sikhs are pretty cool,

ਝਕੋ ਅਲਹ੝ ਪਾਰਬ੝ਰਹਮ ॥੫॥੩੪॥੪੫॥
The Muslim God Allah and the Hindu God Paarbrahm are one and the same.

But Hinduism has provided many stories and philosophical lessons so I can't fully say i'm Sikh as too many modern Sikhs opposed Hinduism!

Peace be on you...Thanks...According to search by Ahmadiyya Muslim Hazrat Promised Messiah (on whom be peace), Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak Sahib (on whom be mercy of Allah) was a Muslim Pious.

In 1895 Hazrat Promised Messiah (AS) made known the outcome of his research regarding the religious beliefs of Founder of the Sikh religion. He (A.S.) stated that although Hazrat Baba Nanak was born in a Hindu household, he had later on accepted Islam.


Hadhrat Baba Nanak (1469-1539) was a righteous person who meticulously followed all the teachings of Islam, so much so that he traveled to Mecca for the purpose of performing pilgrimage to the House of Allah. One of his holy gowns contained Islamic declaration of faith, as well as many verses of the Holy Quran inscribed in Arabic.

Here is a photo of his gown:

For additional reading:
Sikhism - Some Distinctive Beliefs

Baba Guru Nanak – A Muslim Saint

Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak prophesied about Hazrat Ahmadiyya Promised Messiah:

“The reign of the Mughals shall last from 1578 to 1897 of the Bikram era, then a Reformer shall rise. (Janam Sakhi of Bhai Bala pg. 272)

“A time shall come in the latter age when people shall cease to act upon their scriptures and observe no fasts or prayers, Jogies, Sanyansies, Barhamcharves and Brahmins would be labelled as Gurus. Then a perfect teacher shall crush them all. Such is the decree of heaven, which shall surely come to pass. . (Janam Sakhi pg.. 527)

Guru Nanak also pophesized that he would be a Muslim, righteous and true, and that he would come from near Batala in the district of Gurdaspur and that he would be from the Mogul Tribe. . (Janam Sakhi pg.. 234, 251 and 452)

Source: https://www.alislam.org/library/articles/The_Promised_Messiah_Prophecies_Fulfilled-20081007MN.html

Note: "crush" definitely does not mean 'by force' ..It has spiritual connotation only because Ahmadiyya Promised Messiah a.s. did not use force as per his promsied station in the specific era.

Please have beliefs whatever you think is right but new learning is always good... You are cordially welcome to Ahmadiyya annual spiritual gathering Jalsa Salana in India 27,28,29 December 2013.
Good wishes.

 

[Treks]

Sorry for commenting in the Islam DIR, but just wanted to share that Sikhs certainly don't believe that Guru Nanak Sahib Ji was a Muslim. You can search YouTube for the Basics of Sikhi channel and find the series of videos 'Was Guru Nanak Muslim?' - in part #2 Bhai Sahib talks about the cloak above specifically. I haven't embedded the videos here for respect of the Islam DIR. I just wanted to put in 2c since we're talking about Sikhi and Sikhi's founding Guru Sri Guru Nanak Sahib Ji. Thank you.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Sorry for commenting in the Islam DIR

To the contrary, its an honor to have you here sharing your beliefs

 

[ronki23]

What were Saudi Arabia and Makkah like before Wahabbism? Is Saudi Arabia the only Wahabbi state or would Taliban Afghanistan and Pakistan be considered too? I don't know too much about Arabia but I hear Yemen and Iraq had a lot of Jews while UAE,Jordan,Syria,Qatar,Lebanon and Kuwait were more secular.

Was there ever a united Arabia? In the olden days?

Is Wahabbism a branch of Sunni Islam? If so, I assume Qutbism is the next step up in orthodoxy and is 'false' because of those who practise it?

Are Ibadis Sunnis and Ahmadiyaas Shias?

 

[DawudTalut]

What were Saudi Arabia and Makkah like before Wahabbism? Is Saudi Arabia the only Wahabbi state or would Taliban Afghanistan and Pakistan be considered too? I don't know too much about Arabia but I hear Yemen and Iraq had a lot of Jews while UAE,Jordan,Syria,Qatar,Lebanon and Kuwait were more secular.

Was there ever a united Arabia? In the olden days?

Is Wahabbism a branch of Sunni Islam? If so, I assume Qutbism is the next step up in orthodoxy and is 'false' because of those who practise it?

Are Ibadis Sunnis and Ahmadiyaas Shias?

Peace be on you.

Following is some quotation from https://www.alislam.org/books/religiousknowledge/sec4.html
WITH SOME [ ] BY THIS WRITER.


"" THE DEVELOPMENT OF SECTS IN ISLAM

Like other religions in the world, Islam has its share of religious dissension and sects. At numerous times during the course of Islamic history, political events and ideological and theological issues divided the Muslim community into various groups which then started to identify with specific causes. At present there are more than 72 sects in Islam.

Basically, there are two main divisions in Islam: the Sunnis and the Shias. All other sects developed from these two main streams................. Some important sects of Islam and their relationship with the two main streams are shown below:

Sunni Stream of Islam: Ahle Hadith (Traditionists)
Wahabis
Ahmadis
Shia Stream of Islam: Zaydis
Twelvers
Seveners: Nizaris or Ismailis
Musta'lis or Bohras

THE SUNNI MUSLIMS

As mentioned above, the main body of Muslims comprises the Sunnis who accept the authority and the bona fide status of the first four "Pious" Khalifahs and the comprehensive system of Islamic law, the Shari'a. There are four distinct orthodox law schools recognized by the Sunnis.

These are: the Malikis, Hanafis, Shafi and Hanbalis. These schools are based on the interpretation of Islamic law by the four well known Islamic jurists and theologians of the first three centuries of Islam: Imam Malik bin Anas, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Muhammad bin Idris al Shafi and Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal. Although the founders of the four schools of law differ significantly on many matters related to the regulations of worship and the law, there is a certain cohesion within the Sunni community which allows this variance to exist without destroying the fundamental unity of beliefs in this stream of Islam.

A majority of the Sunni Muslims belong to the Ahle Hadith or Traditionists sect. They give particular importance to the sayings and doings of the Holy Prophet, as recorded in the various books of Hadith. Over the years, many sects developed which took issues from some of the main beliefs of the Traditionists. Of these sects we will discuss only two in this book: the Wahabis and the Ahmadis.



The Wahabis [Any of them may write as they want]

The Wahhab sect rose in the middle of the eighteenth century within the Arabian Peninsula. The Wahhabi movement was started by Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab (1703 1793 AD) who was a native of Najd, a province in north central Arabia. He preached a strict puritanical Islam which forbade the veneration of holy places, religious relics and holy men. Amir Muhammad ibne Sa'ud of Dar'iyyah accepted Wahhabi beliefs and his descendents, the House of Sa'ud, did much to propagate and establish Wahhabi doctrines in Arabia and surrounding areas. During the spread of the political influence of the House of Sa'ud, numerous armed conflicts occurred with the Ottoman Empire of Turkey.


The Ahmadis

The Ahmadiyya movement was founded in 1889 as a sect of Islam by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, India. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the Mujaddid of the fourteenth century of Islam and the Promised Messiah and the Promised Mahdi whose advent had been foretold [Subject is mentioned in Ahmadiyya DIR.....Holy Quran and explained in Saying of Prophet of Islam p.b.u.h. as reformer of latter days...They believe that Holy Prophet Muhammad is the last law giving Prophet and chief of all Prophets....Prophet Jesus a.s. did not go to sky but after remaing at cross for he was saved by disciples and healed and migrated to Kashmir and did his work successecfully and died at 120 years of age, tomb in khanyar Srinager...Plz see alislam.org/jesus] in the Hadith of the Holy Prophet Muhammad. The Ahmadis generally follow the Sunni-Hanafi school of law, they are not Shiaa.[ Holistic information in www.alislam.org ] ""

Good wishes for everyone.

 

[Sb1995]

Before Islam, Mecca was a place for idol worshipping? Doesn't that mean Kabba is an idol.

 

[Pastek]

Before Islam, Mecca was a place for idol worshipping? Doesn't that mean Kabba is an idol.

The Kaaba was built by Adam and then rebuilt by Abraham and Ismael.

Arabs used to follow the religion of Abraham but after some time people became polytheists and then used the Kaaba for their idols.

 

[Sb1995]

I see, now is that a historical viewpoint or the belief of muslims? just wondering

 

[Pastek]

I couldn't say there's proof of that.

 

[Matemkar]

Salam. About Hajj (Pilgrimage), here is the best book I have ever read;

http://www.dropbox.com/s/ifkx78lxs633ywm/Hajj - Dr Ali Shariati.pdf

You might like it. Good luck with your studies. Ma salam