Interesting Covid-twist in Europe

[Revoltingest]

The whole thing about vaccination is that you don't get the disease, and that works perfect.

It doesn't work that way.
Especially with new Covid variants arising, vaccines
are less than 100% effective. We need enuf widespread
immunity that transmission rates drop to near zero, ie,
herd immunity.
People will still get Covid. But the results won't be epidemic.

I never got hepatitis again after getting my vaccination. Before my vaccination I got it at least 3 times. So, those who are vaccinated need not worry (or pretend to worry on their behalf) about those who don't take a vaccination for whatever their reason is.

Those refusing the vaccine are numerous enuf to possibly
prevent herd immunity, thereby endangering others, including
those vaccinated, & especially those with compromised
immune systems.

Especially knowing that the majority does take vaccines, this whole hype against those who don't want to take a vaccination is just absurd. Looks like proselytizing again, all over, now the religion of fear for virus instead of the religion of God.

Interestingly...tis the religious folk I know (fundie Christians)
who most oppose vaccination. I observe fear of vaccines
& fear of government driving their refusal. (God will protect
them from commies like Biden & this faux disease.) But oddly,
they are OK with vaccination for other diseases....the ones not
politicized as conservative-vs-liberal.

 

[stvdv]

What overheated and hysterical nonsense!

What a nonsense reply you gave

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, that might be true, that they accidentally do something good

I even start to believe, that those in the Governments might be full of fear themselves, hence their focus on the vaccine. I don't have any fear for getting corona at all, hence I think that others also have no fear (this whole fear thing is just not in my mind). But I did recently meet a few people who are really scared to get corona. And if those normal people are scared, then probably those in the government (also normal people) probably also are full of fear. IF that is the case THEN its easy to understand why they make it such a big thing, that is what fear does with human mind

And viruses can be very dangerous/lethal, this I know. Maybe soon we get a really lethal one, for which there is not even a vaccine. That is possible, I mean we have now corona popping up, tomorrow it might be a new one, as dangerous as the plague. It could even be that a Bill Gates, being a visionair, who is so busy with vaccines has this fear or even foresight, and tries to be 1 step ahead (be ready with a universal vaccine against all viruses). I mean, Bill Gates is special, having invented microsoft, which is implemented worldwide, and the world can't even live without it anymore.

I've no fear of Covid 19.
But I still take reasonable precautions against threats,
eg, defensive driving, wearing seatbelts, vaccination
against diseases here (not overseas ones).

Wags will say those are measures based in fear.
That's just a vapid insult. I'd be OK with their choices
if only they were personally affected. But they endanger
others. It's akin to driving drunk. "I don't want government
telling me what to do!" There's more at stake than "me".

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But, as you know full well, 99.9% of people are NOT vaccinated and won't be for the foreseeable future.

The point of this hypothetical is to say the majority Did get vaccinated, and since the vaccinations are going up to make up the majority, what would happen to the minority other than we catching COVID and killing ourselves off. We'd literally not figuratively be at risk to ourselves since vaccinated people feel they are literally immune.

This is especially so in those countries that have not had a quick vaccination roll-out, or where silly and malevolent myths have deterred a significant number of people. (Russia is at work spreading antivaxxer myths in the USA, for example: Russian trolls fueled anti-vaccination debate in U.S. by spreading misinformation on Twitter, study finds )

Some countries aren't as fortunate. I don't follow politics that intensively to know what other countries are doing, though.

The point of a vaccination passport is that to enter, say, Germany from Zaire, you have to present a proof you have been vaccinated. That's to stop people importing the virus - maybe even a new variant - and putting at risk the unprotected people there. That's those who can't have the vaccine for one reason or another, or who have been bamboozled by lies into not getting themselves vaccinated, or the children, almost none of whom have been vaccinated yet and some of whom do get ill from it.

What do we do with the unvaccinated?

I honestly believe many unvaccinated people make sound decisions no matter how much vaccinated people want to justify their decisions by ignorance. Kind of like-to compare-christians trying to justify atheist decisions by assuming they just ignorant of god's presence. Same pattern, different subject. Which makes it a bit hypocritical to think of it.

You also make a ludicrous assertion that the "vaccinated don't care about unvaccinated". Of course they do. Part of the job of being a health professional is to maintain the health of everyone in society.

The comment was to provaxxers not health professionals though.

I'm sure there are provaxxer health professionals, but I'm sure their medical ethics doesn't mix with their personal opinions outside the health facility.

 

[stvdv]

It doesn't work that way.
Especially with new Covid variants arising, vaccines
are less than 100% effective. We need enuf widespread
immunity that transmission rates drop to near zero, ie,
herd immunity.
People will still get Covid. But the results won't be epidemic.

New variants pop up so rapidly now, that I think vaccines might not even be 70% effective in the long run.
Most effective is to stay in your house, and don't come out of your house during covid season
And pray that covid stays seasonal and don't start to be active 24/07
That might wipe out humanity in a few years

 

[Revoltingest]

We'd literally not figuratively be at risk to ourselves since vaccinated people feel they are literally immune.

It's important for all to recognize that even the vaccinated
don't have perfect immunity. And that lack of perfection
is not a reason to avoid vaccination. It's all about reducing
risk of infection, disability, & death from the disease. This
is so both for the individual, & for the population.

 

[exchemist]

What a nonsense reply you gave

If you think it was nonsense, that says more about you than about me. I'll let readers reach their own conclusions.

 

[stvdv]

I've no fear of Covid 19.

That is important. Fear won't do you any good.

 

[Revoltingest]

New variants pop up so rapidly now, that I think vaccines might not even be 70% effective in the long run.

How is that quantified?

Most effective is to stay in your house, and don't come out of your house during covid season

The populace is loath to take that advice.

And pray that covid stays seasonal and don't start to be active 24/07
That might wipe out humanity in a few years

I'm not a fan of prayer.
Nor do I think humanity will end.

 

[Revoltingest]

That is important. Fear won't do you any good.

Especially for those who fear vaccination,
& let this destroy good judgement.
Excessive fear of a fiendish government
plot is also the mind killer.

 

[exchemist]

The point of this hypothetical is to say the majority Did get vaccinated, and since the vaccinations are going up to make up the majority, what would happen to the minority other than we catching COVID and killing ourselves off. We'd literally not figuratively be at risk to ourselves since vaccinated people feel they are literally immune.



Some countries aren't as fortunate. I don't follow politics that intensively to know what other countries are doing, though.



What do we do with the unvaccinated?

I honestly believe many unvaccinated people make sound decisions no matter how much vaccinated people want to justify their decisions by ignorance. Kind of like-to compare-christians trying to justify atheist decisions by assuming they just ignorant of god's presence. Same pattern, different subject. Which makes it a bit hypocritical to think of it.



The comment was to provaxxers not health professionals though.

I'm sure there are provaxxer health professionals, but I'm sure their medical ethics doesn't mix with their personal opinions outside the health facility.

This is continuing to promote a false equivalence between the views of the medical profession and the antivaxxers. It's a bit like suggesting those who believe in the "Bowling Green massacre" have just as much right to have their views respected as those who know the truth.

 

[stvdv]

If you think it was nonsense, that says more about you than about me. I'll let readers reach their own conclusions.

No I mirrored your reply, you were the one starting calling my reply nonsense. I never do such a thing, only sometimes if someone starts like that I mirror what they say. And if they continue to do, then I have nothing to say anymore, and not even the slightest interest to read the rest of their reply

FYI:
So, if you want me to read your replies, and learn something from you, then you better leave out lines like "what a nonsense reply"
If you would phrase it like "that is nonsense IMO", that would be a good first step. Then I will continue reading what you replied to me

@Revoltingest is very good in this. He does not agree with many things I said, but he replies in a very decent and respectful way, and I always enjoy reading his replies. And I also learn things from his replies. Much more fun than people who start of so negative and invasive. Of course you are free to continue your way, but then you know I won't read it. And I can not imagine you reply to me, if you know I don't read it, unless you write it for others

 

[Revoltingest]

This is continuing to promote a false equivalence between the views of the medical profession and the antivaxxers. It's a bit like suggesting those who believe in the "Bowling Green massacre" have just as much right to have their views respected as those who know the truth.

It's a problem that on the internet, all things are true.
Many people have a problem discerning which sources
are cromulent, & which are bonkers.
Now, I'm leaving to build my mercury vortex anti-gravity
starship using plans I found on a slick website. I plan
to travel thru a wormhole space time to when you were
in high school to give you an atomic wedgie.

 

[Revoltingest]

@Revoltingest is very good in this. He does not agree with many things I said, but he replies in a very decent and respectful way, and I always enjoy reading his replies. And I also learn things from his replies.

Thank you.
But this is only cuz I work hard to hide my true nature.
Dark & bitter it is.

 

[stvdv]

Especially for those who fear vaccination,
& let this destroy good judgement.
Excessive fear of a fiendish government
plot is also the mind killer.

Yes, I agree. Any fear is not healthy. Very true, fear really inhibits good judgement.
I don't think there are many people who have fear for vaccination; it's just such a tiny injection
I take many injections myself, even doing it myself at home. Not my favorite to put a needle in my skin though, but there are worse things in life

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's important for all to recognize that even the vaccinated
don't have perfect immunity. And that lack of perfection
is not a reason to avoid vaccination. It's all about reducing
risk of infection, disability, & death from the disease. This
is so both for the individual, & for the population.

Since people make decisions individually and valid reasons depend on the person, how would you convince someone they are at danger because others are potentially are?

In other words, how would you convince someone in a less rural area that he or she is at the same level of risk and will harm others as someone in a more dense population area?

Level of risk has always been a fact in whether one has a possibility of affecting others or not. Experts can't be specific-they generalize the whole population at being at a risk but people need to think for themselves if They are actually at a high risk whether they believe its for themselves and/or because of others. For some people to get the vaccine it's a just-in-case reason. While others "also" have legitimate reasons because of health concerns, family, or they say civil obligation to their country. The reasons I'd say are illogical are ones that are made by fear and peer pressure and methods I disagree with with getting people to be vaccinated is by coercion, threatening people, and telling people take it or else you're not caring of others. These things are counterproductive. If people really want others to get vaccinated, there should be other ways to do so. However, we tend to have this "hell-mentality" that it's hard to think otherwise unless under ultimatum.

There's an communication theory I read awhile back in study where people feel they are doing good for others because they mistake their feeling and morals for actual action. So, for example, someone thousands of miles away would not be affected by one not being unvaccinated on the other side of the world, but to actually vaccinate will give that person a sense he or she is doing something for the common good. So, it's one thing if one is more concerned about those who are local... but it's a whole 'nother to be concerned with strangers.

We just don't know if they are at a high level risk of others. The concern (if to call it that or if it exists) is warranted on unvaccinated people but this is totally different and using "because thousands of people die" to justify one's attitude towards it is not strengthening nor convincing anyone to become vaccinated.

 

[Revoltingest]

Since people make decisions individually and valid reasons depend on the person, how would you convince someone they are at danger because others are potentially are?

In other words, how would you convince someone in a less rural area that he or she is at the same level of risk and will harm others as someone in a more dense population area?

Level of risk has always been a fact in whether one has a possibility of affecting others or not. Experts can't be specific-they generalize the whole population at being at a risk but people need to think for themselves if They are actually at a high risk whether they believe its for themselves and/or because of others. For some people to get the vaccine it's a just-in-case reason. While others "also" have legitimate reasons because of health concerns, family, or they say civil obligation to their country. The reasons I'd say are illogical are ones that are made by fear and peer pressure and methods I disagree with with getting people to be vaccinated is by coercion, threatening people, and telling people take it or else you're not caring of others. These things are counterproductive. If people really want others to get vaccinated, there should be other ways to do so. However, we tend to have this "hell-mentality" that it's hard to think otherwise unless under ultimatum.

There's an communication theory I read awhile back in study where people feel they are doing good for others because they mistake their feeling and morals for actual action. So, for example, someone thousands of miles away would not be affected by one not being unvaccinated on the other side of the world, but to actually vaccinate will give that person a sense he or she is doing something for the common good. So, it's one thing if one is more concerned about those who are local... but it's a whole 'nother to be concerned with strangers.

We just don't know if they are at a high level risk of others. The concern (if to call it that or if it exists) is warranted on unvaccinated people but this is totally different and using "because thousands of people die" to justify one's attitude towards it is not strengthening nor convincing anyone to become vaccinated.

I.don't.say.that.all.are.at.the.same.risk.
Nay,I've.addressed.the.different.levels.for.groups.
How.to.convince.anti-vaxers?
I.say.what.I've.said.
Does.it.work?
Not.well.
I.still.can't.convince.one.friend.that.the.vaccine.
can't.make.him.magnetic.

Space.bar.is.on.the.fritz.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

being unvaccinated would just kill each of us off

Since when does Covid have a 100% death rate? If that's not what you were saying, then what were you saying? Seems as clear as mud at the moment.

Also, in another post you mentioned something about "if this were the Black Plague" that more stringent rules would be applicable or something - which I thought was funny. In reality, the disease called "Black Plague" was probably no worse than Covid - it's just that the time it hit our societies was during a particularly ignorant patch of development - such that increased hygeine, washing of hands, use of disinfectants, keeping the sick hydrated and well nourished, etc. just weren't known to be the methods of stopping spread or helping those along who were sick. Not to mention the fact that nutrition itself wasn't as well known or as bountiful. Had Covid hit in the conditions of the mid 1300's, it may have even been worse than the "Black Plague." If, however, you simply meant that if Covid had a higher death rate in our modern times, and even our methods of prevention didn't stop the onslaught of people getting sick and dying, then that is a different matter. The comparison in that case would be more to the situation faced by those (regardless their limited knowledge and resources playing a part), more-so than to the actual virus itself.

 

[stvdv]

What about the people who fear the virus?

I am not a fan of fear, but I am a fan of common sense. If you fear the virus might be trouble for you, just take the steps needed to not get in trouble

A friend of mine has just refused to go on holiday with a couple of friends because the wife is an anti-vaxer.

I think it is smart to not go on holiday if you are not vaccinated and think the virus will get you end you up in hospital, very sick or worse

I was once in India, and Sai Baba came in my dream and told me "get out now, malaria will arrive soon and your health is too weak, you will die".

Usually I like to test if the dream of Sai Baba is real, but in this case I got out of Puttaparthi quite quickly, because Sai Baba sounded very serious in the dream, He meant business. So, I went back to Holland. I am really fortunate that Sai Baba has been taking care of me so well. This dream became reality.

 

[stvdv]

Rubbish

Rubbish

this applies to europeans as well, if you don't have a negative test which is a max 48 hours old or a covid passport, you are not going anywhere within Europe, obviously depending on each countries rules, which might even vary from one european country towards another european country, but not others, but in general that is pretty much how it is.

It have nothing to do with who can't and can't enter Europe, it's about making sure that Covid is not spread due to stupidity.

The "EU Digital COVID Certificate" (available from 1 July 2021) provides proof that a person has either:

• been vaccinated against COVID-19 (vaccine type and manufacturer, number of doses, date of vaccination);
• received a negative test result, PCR or rapid antigen, with the name of the test, date and time of test, test centre and result (self-tests are not valid);
• recovered from COVID-19.

When travelling, holders of the "EU Digital COVID Certificate" will have the same rights as citizens of the visited Member State who have been vaccinated, tested or recovered.

The certificate provides a standardised recognition of the holder's status related to vaccination, recovery from COVID or test result. Each country continues to be responsible for the definition of its own entry requirements and rules, which are not standardised at the EU level. This means that what you will be eligible for, upon presentation of this certificate, depends on the measures and entry rules in place at your country of destination.

Thanks, good info