Interesting discussion about religion and evolution

[YoursTrue]

https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/09/15/440501945/a-question-for-you-about-evolution-god-and-death

Changing ideas...? Maybe.

Question For You About Evolution, God And Death​

 

[YoursTrue]

Gotta read it. How interesting.

 

[Soandso]

"Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more; and if the final outcome of all the boasted discoveries of modern science is to disclose to men that they are more evanescent than the shadow of the swallow's wing up on the lake give... me then, I pray, no more science. Let me live on, in my simple ignorance, as my fathers lived before me, and when I shall at length be summoned to my final repose, let me still be able to fold the drapery of my couch about me, and lie down to pleasant, even if they be deceitful, dreams."

I could never choose self delusion over the persuit of truth - even if the truth I uncovered was unpleasant. Honestly, growing so attached to the ego feels unhealthy to me. We all gotta die some time - savor the moment

 

[YoursTrue]

"Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more; and if the final outcome of all the boasted discoveries of modern science is to disclose to men that they are more evanescent than the shadow of the swallow's wing up on the lake give... me then, I pray, no more science. Let me live on, in my simple ignorance, as my fathers lived before me, and when I shall at length be summoned to my final repose, let me still be able to fold the drapery of my couch about me, and lie down to pleasant, even if they be deceitful, dreams."

I could never choose self delusion over the persuit of truth - even if the truth I uncovered was unpleasant. Honestly, growing so attached to the ego feels unhealthy to me. We all gotta die some time - savor the moment

So... logically speaking, in your view, death is the absolute end without doubt of life according to the scientific theory, do I understand your view correctly about evolution? (Being mindless...)

 

[YoursTrue]

I could never choose self delusion over the persuit of truth - even if the truth I uncovered was unpleasant. Honestly, growing so attached to the ego feels unhealthy to me. We all gotta die some time - savor the moment

I don't think so. But that's how I see it now.

 

[Soandso]

So... logically speaking, in your view, death is the absolute end without doubt of life according to the scientific theory, do I understand your view correctly about evolution? (Being mindless...)

No

There's many claims and assertions that many people make about what happens after people die. None of them can be substantiated. What I see, though, is that all biological functions end when something dies. That's all anyone knows for sure. Until more/better evidence comes along, that's my default

 

[YoursTrue]

No

There's many claims and assertions that many people make about what happens after people die. None of them can be substantiated. What I see, though, is that all biological functions end when something dies. That's all anyone knows for sure. Until more/better evidence comes along, that's my default

I'm not talking about what may happen after death. I'm speaking about the idea that death follows life. There are biologic reasons given by scientists as to why we must inevitably die.

 

[YoursTrue]

"Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more; and if the final outcome of all the boasted discoveries of modern science is to disclose to men that they are more evanescent than the shadow of the swallow's wing up on the lake give... me then, I pray, no more science. Let me live on, in my simple ignorance, as my fathers lived before me, and when I shall at length be summoned to my final repose, let me still be able to fold the drapery of my couch about me, and lie down to pleasant, even if they be deceitful, dreams."

I could never choose self delusion over the persuit of truth - even if the truth I uncovered was unpleasant. Honestly, growing so attached to the ego feels unhealthy to me. We all gotta die some time - savor the moment

Most of us don't want to die.

 

[YoursTrue]

No

There's many claims and assertions that many people make about what happens after people die. None of them can be substantiated. What I see, though, is that all biological functions end when something dies. That's all anyone knows for sure. Until more/better evidence comes along, that's my default

So evolution has a mind?

 

[YoursTrue]

Obviously evolution doesn't care about religion and according to the theory it is mindless.

 

[Soandso]

I'm not talking about what may happen after death. I'm speaking about the idea that death follows life. There are biologic reasons given by scientists as to why we must inevitably die.

Sure. There have been medical breakthroughs as we understand how aging works wothin cells, so that might be extended - though I don't think you or I would benefit too much from those breakthroughs within our lifetimes since we are both past our primes, biologically speaking

Most of us don't want to die.

sure, but it's still going to happen. Better to accept that fact then to live in denial

On a personal note, have you had a near death experience Or a personal experience with the fragile nature of your own mortality? I've had a couple. What I took away from those is that life is precious, and it's limited. We are tiny beings within the scope of all that is. I'm not owed life, but I simply get to borrow some time and enjoy it for only a limited time

So evolution has a mind?

No. Evolution is just a process

Obviously evolution doesn't care about religion and according to the theory it is mindless.

It doesn't require a mind behind the process, but it isn't aimless, either. It, like many other processes, utilizes a path of least resistance

Since we can observe mutations in all living things all the time, it stands to reason that there would be good mutations and bad mutations, no? The mutations themselves are random, but the outcomes can either hurt or help an organism. If that organism procreates, those mutations are passed on to the offspring. This happens over and over again for eons and eons. Don't you think that over time, all those little mutations would make a difference in offspring further down the line?

There's no more thought behind it than a volcanic island forming in the pacific ocean in the middle of nowhere. The event has no moral values, no ideas on why it forms, and has no end goals to attain. It's simply just another manifestation of nature. It is what it is

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Gotta read it. How interesting.

I honestly do not understand why someone might find the article to be particularly interesting.

"God?" is a question of fact. If God, then God, irrespective of consequences and certainly irrespective of my hopes, and I suspect that many if not most deists and panentheists have no need for concepts such as an afterlife and redemption.

 

[WalterTrull]

https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/09/15/440501945/a-question-for-you-about-evolution-god-and-death

Changing ideas...? Maybe.

Question For You About Evolution, God And Death​

Here's another interesting discussion along those lines on Youtube. Actually, it's available as a DVD, but Youtube is easier and less expensive.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sure. There have been medical breakthroughs as we understand how aging works wothin cells, so that might be extended - though I don't think you or I would benefit too much from those breakthroughs within our lifetimes since we are both past our primes, biologically speaking



sure, but it's still going to happen. Better to accept that fact then to live in denial

On a personal note, have you had a near death experience Or a personal experience with the fragile nature of your own mortality? I've had a couple. What I took away from those is that life is precious, and it's limited. We are tiny beings within the scope of all that is. I'm not owed life, but I simply get to borrow some time and enjoy it for only a limited time

"

No. Evolution is just a process



It doesn't require a mind behind the process, but it isn't aimless, either. It, like many other processes, utilizes a path of least resistance

Since we can observe mutations in all living things all the time, it stands to reason that there would be good mutations and bad mutations, no? The mutations themselves are random, but the outcomes can either hurt or help an organism. If that organism procreates, those mutations are passed on to the offspring. This happens over and over again for eons and eons. Don't you think that over time, all those little mutations would make a difference in offspring further down the line?

There's no more thought behind it than a volcanic island forming in the pacific ocean in the middle of nowhere. The event has no moral values, no ideas on why it forms, and has no end goals to attain. It's simply just another manifestation of nature. It is what it is

I'm not particularly looking forward to scientists figuring how the cells in our bodies can "live forever." Nope, sorry. But I have hope that we can live forever someday. By 'we' I mean in OUR bodies, not someone else's body. You are you and I am me. (Have a good one..)

 

[YoursTrue]

Sure. There have been medical breakthroughs as we understand how aging works wothin cells, so that might be extended - though I don't think you or I would benefit too much from those breakthroughs within our lifetimes since we are both past our primes, biologically speaking



sure, but it's still going to happen. Better to accept that fact then to live in denial

On a personal note, have you had a near death experience Or a personal experience with the fragile nature of your own mortality? I've had a couple. What I took away from those is that life is precious, and it's limited. We are tiny beings within the scope of all that is. I'm not owed life, but I simply get to borrow some time and enjoy it for only a limited time



No. Evolution is just a process



It doesn't require a mind behind the process, but it isn't aimless, either. It, like many other processes, utilizes a path of least resistance

Since we can observe mutations in all living things all the time, it stands to reason that there would be good mutations and bad mutations, no? The mutations themselves are random, but the outcomes can either hurt or help an organism. If that organism procreates, those mutations are passed on to the offspring. This happens over and over again for eons and eons. Don't you think that over time, all those little mutations would make a difference in offspring further down the line?

There's no more thought behind it than a volcanic island forming in the pacific ocean in the middle of nowhere. The event has no moral values, no ideas on why it forms, and has no end goals to attain. It's simply just another manifestation of nature. It is what it is

It's not aimless? Like maybe mutations that are not good are not aimless?

 

[Soandso]

It's not aimless? Like maybe mutations that are not good are not aimless?

I explained how with the next paragraph

Environmental pressures favor certain mutations over others. If two deer have to run from a cougar, the slower one will be caught, and the faster one gets to survive and procreate. Countless scenerios like that play out over and over continuously for eons and eons between all these different organisms, and all those tiny mutations that happen each generation never stop. If enough time goes by all those tiny mutations have added up to something bigger, and given enough time, have added up to the point where it no longer resembles where it started

It's not just completely random and chaotic. Those environmental pressures will hone organisms into evolving in more specific ways. Convergent evolution is a good way to convey this fact, imo

 

[YoursTrue]

I explained how with the next paragraph

Environmental pressures favor certain mutations over others. If two deer have to run from a cougar, the slower one will be caught, and the faster one gets to survive and procreate. Countless scenerios like that play out over and over continuously for eons and eons between all these different organisms, and all those tiny mutations that happen each generation never stop. If enough time goes by all those tiny mutations have added up to something bigger, and given enough time, have added up to the point where it no longer resembles where it started

It's not just completely random and chaotic. Those environmental pressures will hone organisms into evolving in more specific ways. Convergent evolution is a good way to convey this fact, imo

Seems these changes genetically are completely random. The ones that are supposed to work manage to stay, according to the theory. They are completely random, without thought.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Seems these changes genetically are completely random. The ones that are supposed to work manage to stay, according to the theory. They are completely random, without thought.

Yes. And?

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes. And?

As I have been saying, the way scientists describe it, it is mindless. It's a bunch of chemical reactions without mindful purpose. It is supposed to do what it does mindlessly.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

As I have been saying, the way scientists describe it, it is mindless. It's a bunch of chemical reactions without mindful purpose. It is supposed to do what it does mindlessly.

Yes. That is correct. Now why the bold one?