Interesting discussion about religion and evolution

[Soandso]

As I have been saying, the way scientists describe it, it is mindless. It's a bunch of chemical reactions without mindful purpose. It is supposed to do what it does mindlessly.

Just like every other force of nature

 

[YoursTrue]

"Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more; and if the final outcome of all the boasted discoveries of modern science is to disclose to men that they are more evanescent than the shadow of the swallow's wing up on the lake give... me then, I pray, no more science. Let me live on, in my simple ignorance, as my fathers lived before me, and when I shall at length be summoned to my final repose, let me still be able to fold the drapery of my couch about me, and lie down to pleasant, even if they be deceitful, dreams."

I could never choose self delusion over the persuit of truth - even if the truth I uncovered was unpleasant. Honestly, growing so attached to the ego feels unhealthy to me. We all gotta die some time - savor the moment

To me it's not self delusion.because life, as I see it, and the preservation of the scriptures are miraculous.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes. And?

Once again, the theory is that the life changes via evolution are mindless. That's it.

 

[YoursTrue]

Just like every other force of nature

There are those here who believe in evolution and also that God is somewhere maybe but are unwilling to discuss it. I guess it cuts too close for them.

 

[Soandso]

To me it's not self delusion.because life, as I see it, and the preservation of the scriptures are miraculous.

I'm not sure how you see it, but quoting the man from the article - it feels like he's coping. For example, from the very first line:

"Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more;"

What he is saying is that he loves the truth as a concept, but that truth isn't as important as the idea of immortality to him. That's delusional thinking

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm not sure how you see it, but quoting the man from the article - it feels like he's coping. For example, from the very first line:

"Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more;"

What he is saying is that he loves the truth as a concept, but that truth isn't as important as the idea of immortality to him. That's delusional thinking

I understand what you're saying. If I thought that evolution as perceived by the majority of scientists is true beyond question, I'd have a different viewpoint. I do not see it as truth and fact beyond question. But if I live '(and that's questionable) in the near enough future, I'll get back with this.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm not sure how you see it, but quoting the man from the article - it feels like he's coping. For example, from the very first line:

"Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more;"

What he is saying is that he loves the truth as a concept, but that truth isn't as important as the idea of immortality to him. That's delusional thinking

Yes. And then again I give him credit because he is rational and honest enough in his thinking to admit what he believes or thinks. Some here who consider themselves rational thinkers, put down others who do not agree with the theory, get huffy, sarcastic and closed (minded) when asked to detail their beliefs. At least the author you quote is honest. For that I give him credit. Not that I agree with his analysis of the theory. I do see, however, the reasons why many do believe evolution is how things came about in this world.

 

[dybmh]

https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/09/15/440501945/a-question-for-you-about-evolution-god-and-death

Changing ideas...? Maybe.

Question For You About Evolution, God And Death​

The article asks the following questions, here are my answers:

Would your belief in God be any different if there was no promise of immortal life?

Not even a little. Every moment is a blessing. Every moment can last forever as long as I can remember it.​

If God created a world where death was just the end of consciousness, would that change anything for you?

No, God is incharge, God knows best.​

 

[dybmh]

savor the moment

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm not sure how you see it, but quoting the man from the article - it feels like he's coping. For example, from the very first line:

"Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more;"

What he is saying is that he loves the truth as a concept, but that truth isn't as important as the idea of immortality to him. That's delusional thinking

What is happening is that he is confronted with the exposition of the theories of evolution. But again, no proof. His hope of immortality is probably not as I understand it, but what I discern is that he hopes to live forever someday. There are two ways to back that up. 1is the Bible. The other is life itself.

 

[Soandso]

Yes. And then again I give him credit because he is rational and honest enough in his thinking to admit what he believes or thinks. Some here who consider themselves rational thinkers, put down others who do not agree with the theory, get huffy, sarcastic and closed (minded) when asked to detail their beliefs. At least the author you quote is honest. For that I give him credit. Not that I agree with his analysis of the theory. I do see, however, the reasons why many do believe evolution is how things came about in this world.

Eh... Admitting that he puts what he wants over reason is the exact opposite of rational. I don't think there's anything admirable about that, and honestly, it kind of puts me off. That's the exact opposite of intellectual honesty. It's actively trying to live with blinders on

What is happening is that he is confronted with the exposition of the theories of evolution. But again, no proof.

That's not what I read. What happens in the article is that he chooses to ignore his beliefs in evolution in favor of what he wants - even though he finds the theory convincing. That's fine, but to do so requires serious mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance. I wouldn't be able to live a happy life like that, personally

His hope of immortality is probably not as I understand it, but what I discern is that he hopes to live forever someday. There are two ways to back that up. 1is the Bible.

And every other holy book out there

Why would anyone hope that their ego persists forever? Like I said before, this attachment to our own egos doesn't feel healthy to me. It feels like a kind of escapism

The other is life itself.

So the real world evidence that eternal life that exists outside of reality is the fact that life exists at all? Death exists as well, and we can actually see that that one IS eternal and it also actually exists in reality, unlike claims of eternal lives in paradise

The evidence for eternal, spiritual life in paradise seems weak to me

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not sure how you see it, but quoting the man from the article - it feels like he's coping. For example, from the very first line:

"Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more;"

What he is saying is that he loves the truth as a concept, but that truth isn't as important as the idea of immortality to him. That's delusional thinking

The bold one requries evidence per burden of proof. So please give that.

 

[Soandso]

The bold one requries evidence per burden of proof. So please give that.

I did explain my thoughts in more detail further down

That's not what I read. What happens in the article is that he chooses to ignore his beliefs in evolution in favor of what he wants - even though he finds the theory convincing. That's fine, but to do so requires serious mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance. I wouldn't be able to live a happy life like that, personally

The quote "Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more" encapsulates this perfectly

If you have to say to yourself "This one thing is probably true, but I'm going to actively try to pretend that it's not and try to convince myself instead that this other thing is true because it's what I want to be true" - that's delusional thinking

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I did explain my thoughts in more detail further down



The quote "Much as I love truth in the abstract, my hope of immortality still more" encapsulates this perfectly

If you have to say to yourself "This one thing is probably true, but I'm going to actively try to pretend that it's not and try to convince myself instead that this other thing is true because it's what I want it to be true" - that's delusional thinking

Yeah, that is a norm in your thinking.

 

[Soandso]

Yeah, that is a norm in your thinking.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Maybe you could take the time to explain your thoughts like I took the time to explain mine?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Maybe you could take the time to explain your thoughts like I took the time to explain mine?

That problem is that there is no objective definitions of truth or what matters to humans, so your version depends on what you thing truth is and what matters as being a human.

 

[Soandso]

That problem is that there is no objective definitions of truth or what matters to humans, so your version depends on what you thing truth is and what matters as being a human.

I agree. I'm not saying that he is rejecting actual, objective truth. What I am saying is that he is taking something that he already accepts as probably true in favor of lying to himself. As he continues on...

"Let me live on, in my simple ignorance, as my fathers lived before me, and when I shall at length be summoned to my final repose, let me still be able to fold the drapery of my couch about me, and lie down to pleasant, even if they be deceitful, dreams."

Let me emphasize that last bit.

"and lie down to pleasant, even if they be deceitful, dreams."

He is actively trying to shelter himself from what he thinks is true in favor of what he describes as self deception. That is delusional thinking

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I agree. I'm not saying that he is rejecting actual, objective truth. What I am saying is that he is taking something that he already accepts as probably true in favor of lying to himself. As he continues on...

"Let me live on, in my simple ignorance, as my fathers lived before me, and when I shall at length be summoned to my final repose, let me still be able to fold the drapery of my couch about me, and lie down to pleasant, even if they be deceitful, dreams."

Let me emphasize that last bit.

"and lie down to pleasant, even if they be deceitful, dreams."

He is actively trying to shelter himself from what he thinks is true in favor of what he describes as self deception. That is delusional thinking

I get it now. Thanks for sticking with me.

 

[Soandso]

I get it now. Thanks for sticking with me.

Yah! Sure thing

 

[shunyadragon]

Gotta read it. How interesting.

It is interesting, but proposes interesting questions all have to ask including you