i would get a companion study guide or use a study Bible. Dake’s annotated Bible is good. Hilton Sutton”s “The Book of Revelation Revealed” I found to be a great overview.
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Interviewing @Kenny
- Thread starter JustGeorge
- Start date
i would get a companion study guide or use a study Bible. Dake’s annotated Bible is good. Hilton Sutton”s “The Book of Revelation Revealed” I found to be a great overview.
Unfortunately I could not find anything online about the approach perhaps with illustrative examples from Hilton Sutton's book. Can you offer a perspective that book's approach that led you to recommend it?
Can you imagine trying to explain today’s technological advances such as the F-15 with it’s arsenal or an atomic bomb with the knowledge and a vocabulary that one would have in the year 95AD? How would you describe a computer? So, any approach of interpretation will have some leeway on specifics but the general historical timeline will find commonality in what most people understand and try to interpret..
This site may help you...
The Revelation Prophecy Chart - A Visual Timeline of the Events of Revelation
The Revelation Prophecy Chart provides a visual display of the events found in the book of Revelation. Each event correlates with chapters in the book of Revelation and reveals the biblical timeline of the end times.
www.davidjeremiah.org
“What was” is easy to discern along with “What is” - but “What is to come” I use through it all, the phrase “Definitely maybe”
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Fresh out of the oven... kinda looking for a new start, then?
The idea of God trying to pull people into knowing him is one I hear from people of multiple paths. Why do you think God might do this?
I can understand the idea of "there has to be more than this"...
I can see how that would be a problem.
How did your parents and other family members respond to your conversion?
Seems like you found your path pretty effortlessly, then.
I love that, knowing that God will take care of everything. Did any of the hardships rattle you at all?
What was it like, to start your own church? Were there any problems with the old one?
This reminds me that there are 9 interconnected Worlds in Germanic mythology. It seems 9 is an important number.
. This locations certainly convey lessons of wisdom and power.
That makes perfect sense.
When I puzzled over Revelation I also noticed images that are not just Christian but much more universal such as the white horse. White horses in mythology - Wikipedia so I take it as that symbol, and others, resonate with people generally.
Absolutely. In our faith, it actually is a new start as one is “born again”.
In a simple word… love.
In a more expansive understanding: In our congregation there was a couple that had divorced but the husband never stopped loving his wife. She even remarried and divorced again. He came to our church, got born again and she followed after. Some six month later (don’t quote me on the exact time) - the were married again.
The typology is that a marriage is a love letter from God with the woman representing mankind. Mankind divorced themselves from God and married a different spirit. God pursues her (mankind) trying to win her heart and get married again. He wants His family restored.
Each one differently but all probably had the commonality of “wait and see”. I remember my sister saying “You talk to me about Jesus again and I won’t ever cross the threshold of your home!!” She was probably was the most adverse reaction. My brother was along the lines of “Everybody has an angle and no one is going to manipulate me!”. An everything in between.
Over the next 20 years, my 2 brothers and my two sisters, my half-brother and half-sister, mother and father, step-moms and step-dads, nephews and nieces, grandmothers and all of my wife’s sisters and mother gave their hearts to Jesus. Some with tears and some not but all with their hearts.
My big brother shared that one time he was about 5 floors up on a metal building welding with a harness on. Leaning as he was welding, the hook that held his harness together got loose and starting falling backwards while starting to turn towards the ground. The hook swung wide and fast and hooked to the jeans belt loop and it held breaking the fall. At that point he figured there was a God.
In one of my services, he walked up and gave his life to Jesus and I asked him, “Hey Rip, I know that you said to be that no one would ever control you or manipulate you. What happed with that philosophy and thought pattern when you came up?” His reply, “Well, Ken, at that moment it just didn’t matter”. It saved his second marriage.
I would have to say a resounding “yes!”.Seems like you found your path pretty effortlessly, then.
LOL… Yes! - I am human after all!
But that didn’t come until much later. Back in the early 2000, a real-estate bubble crash occurred along with an economic downturn and the church finances hit a big drop and I couldn’t sleep at night with the pressure. Fear set in, which is negative faith, and the devil has his hand in the mess.
By that time I had become mature enough to know what to do since faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God. 2 weeks of delving into God and His word forced the fear out and I was back to sleeping as God gave me wisdom to know what to do.
There is a verse that says “If you don’t want to clean poop in the barn, don’t put any animals in it”. (Paraphrased) LOL - Were there any problems in the old one? ABSOLUTELY! If you have people, you have problems. If there isn’t a problem, when I come in, we now have a problem! -Sometimes people think that when you become a Christian you must automatically act like a saint.
But… no… I didn’t start a church because there were some issues. I actually heard the inner voice where God said “Now you can go start the church) (Paraphrased)
It was exciting and we began as a Spanish speaking church - today it has transitioned into a English speaking church! It was held in our living room. On Saturday we removed all the living room furniture (we didn’t have a couch or anything big) and put in folding chairs.
I remember praying alone one day say, “Lord… I know we can go by a tape reproducing machine but we have so many other things we could spend the money on. It would be great if you could get us one!” Within a few days I received a phone call saying, “Do you know of anyone who needs a tape reproducing machine?” Talk about a faith builder!
It quickly grew to two homes with children in one home and adults in the other. From there a rental unit of 2,400 sq ft; to 3,600 sq ft, to 4,800 sq feet; to buying 3 building. Each step was filled with amazing “God moments”.
It has been an amazing journey.
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I really love that analogy.
Why do you think we(humankind) separate in the first place?
That's a lot of influence you had on your family! Sounds very positive in the end, too, even if there were bumps here and there.
I take it that it has enriched family relationships?
You say you had become mature enough to know what to do. Can you illustrate what "delving into God and His word" looks like?I would have to say a resounding “yes!”.
LOL… Yes! - I am human after all!
But that didn’t come until much later. Back in the early 2000, a real-estate bubble crash occurred along with an economic downturn and the church finances hit a big drop and I couldn’t sleep at night with the pressure. Fear set in, which is negative faith, and the devil has his hand in the mess.
By that time I had become mature enough to know what to do since faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God. 2 weeks of delving into God and His word forced the fear out and I was back to sleeping as God gave me wisdom to know what to do.
What were some of the problems going out, and what were some of the problems beginning a new church?
I know few who could do that. Maybe no one?
How did your family take that?
How did you get word out that there was a new church?
I love that!
What are some of the things you do as a Pastor?
That is a depth charge question. My answer may be wholly inadequate since it deals with the heart of mankind which is quite deep and and complex.
Personally thinking, I would say the root cause is pride. Like “i think I know better and I don’t need anyone helping me”. Like my elder brother. Potentially, we can mask pride and have it manifest in different forms like comparing one with another, or, I am morally pretty good as we compare ourselves with other people but I think it all boils down to pride. Some people would call it ego.
Yes. The change of heart and letting God in has changed drug addicts to worship leaders. Broken marriages to whole marriages. Broken an hearts filled with hopelessness to healed hearts with a future.
There is a phrase that says, “Don’t read the word, let the word read you!”. In other words, we believe the words are filled with light and life and if we let the light shine in our hearts, the words, like a vitamin, are filled with life that when released changes your life. The process never ends because, like any relationship, you continue to learn, grow and discover.
Like building a piece of furniture, you look at the directions and go step by step applying physically what you are reading.
Something as simple the template of what is called “The Lord’s Prayer, and applying its principles can change one’s life. Take when we discovered and understood the necessity, the value and the benefits of forgive others that you may be forgiven. Again, letting the word of God read you! My wife and I looked into our hearts and realized that we were carrying heavy load of hurts because we hadn’t dumped the load through forgiveness.
When i forgave my father and she forgave her father, not only were we happier but our marriage improved. It is all interconnected.
“Delving into His word” means don’t just getting knowledge, it is also getting application and getting closer to Him. It is studying and slowing the reading process down until in your meditation God speaks to you through His word. Let the word read and check you heart and soul (mind, will and emotions.
Edited: It’s like grafting two tree trunks together until it takes, you cut your thoughts and viewpoints, take God’s thoughts an viewpoints and graft it into your thinking until it takes and produces change.
Obviously one could write a book on this. Many have.
The main problem going out was to make sure I didn’t pull anyone out from the church I was going to. Going out with blessing and not creating a division. That was basically solved by being completely a Spanish speaking ministry. It was this church that led us to Christ and saved my marriage. Their teachings built a foundation that left a spiritual legacy that still produces today. No words can express our gratitude.
The pastor has taught in my church and I have taught in his. We are united in heart and purpose. Our love and appreciation is eternal. We interact to this day.
Beginning the church. I think that it was like a three quarter filled glass of water. When you zero into the filled portion, you can’t see the empty part. As I look back, I don’t really remember any “problems”. I probably just saw it as an opportunity or “the next step” and simply let God lead my wife and I and guide us. (It was a family affair).
As we grew, more people helped, gaps were filled, ministries were developed. Like a child that may have growing pains but it really isn’t a “problem” it is just growing pains.
We are going through that right now. We have grown 50% in about a year and a half. No “problems’ per se but rather, “OK, what do we need to develop as we continue to change lives.
I know few who could do that. Maybe no one?
LOL - yup - no one. Transformation is over time by receiving the word of God and letting it change your thinking. There is a truth in “you are what you think” - and the word helps us know what God thinks of us (nothing but good).
My family was excited for me. They use to call my home “the hospital.” Even though they didn’t live close - (except for my sis-in-law and fam) , they would arrive one way and by the time they left they were encouraged or changed even before we started the church.
That being said… from the time my wife and I got married up to 30 years of marriage - 27 of them we had someone from my family or my wife’s family living with us. We raised two of her younger sisters and one of my younger brother. There was some years between them and us.
Word of mouth. No internet presence, no facebook, no twitter. Back when there was just ”The Yellow Pages” - telephone book
When I first started my family did: The set-up, the worship, the offering, the message, the accounting, the tear down… lol we did it all. My children took care of any babies and did the “small children’s ministry”. That changed pretty quick… soon we had two homes and my sister-in-law and husband did the children’s ministry while the adults were at my home. (they were about 5 minutes away.)
Marriage counseling, budgeting, marriage ceremonies, celebrations of life, spiritual guidance, hospital visitations, mentoring, youth nights at our house, retreats, seminars, community events… pretty much, you name it we have done it or, as we grew, our church has done it. Construction, worked a cement jack-hammer, nail gun - lol jack of all trades but, hopefully, mastering pastoring.
You can do a lot in 33 yearsLOL… I even submitted architectural plans and was the general contractor under the guise of “owner remodeling”. They were approved and we did the work.
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Well put.
What are some of your favorite 'words'? What are some meaningful experiences you've had with them?
I can relate, I think. I've noticed with the repeating of certain prayers(or other meaningful religious words), I seem to learn from them more and more each time I repeat them.
What is forgiveness like for you? A quick drop of a burden, or is it a process?
I like it.
That can make for some real beautiful work.
That's wonderful you were so respectful upon leaving... Too many times it seems when groups go separate ways, there are hard feelings.
That is how it should be! Work as a team, not an opposition.
Approximately how many congregants do you serve?
You are what you think... that's often true no matter what one's worldview is.
Wow! There must have been a gap in age, yes. Pretty full house, then?My family was excited for me. They use to call my home “the hospital.” Even though they didn’t live close - (except for my sis-in-law and fam) , they would arrive one way and by the time they left they were encouraged or changed even before we started the church.
That being said… from the time my wife and I got married up to 30 years of marriage - 27 of them we had someone from my family or my wife’s family living with us. We raised two of her younger sisters and one of my younger brother. There was some years between them and us.
When did your church start?
Great you had the children's ministry from the start.
What are some of your favorite memories?Marriage counseling, budgeting, marriage ceremonies, celebrations of life, spiritual guidance, hospital visitations, mentoring, youth nights at our house, retreats, seminars, community events… pretty much, you name it we have done it or, as we grew, our church has done it. Construction, worked a cement jack-hammer, nail gun - lol jack of all trades but, hopefully, mastering pastoring.
Wow! You really did do it all. I admire your complete dedication.
Of course, the answer to that question can be endless.
Probably one of the first that helped me immensely was the words of Paul in 2 Cor 10:1-6 that lines up with the temptation of Jesus Matt 4:-11 in reference to thoughts.
So many people think they are horrible or not good Christians because of the thoughts that run through our minds. No matter what the level of how constant they are, thoughts, mental arguments, imaginations or even if it is in a stronghold in your mind, it does not dictate who you are and you can overcome it by the weapons that Jesus gives us. His Word and His Holy Spirit.
It took away the condemnation that I was condemning myself with. And i like saying that like a house that is condemned, you are barred from living in it, likewise, if you condemn yourself, you can’t live with yourself.
I’ve learned that any thought of myself that doesn’t line up with what God is thinking, it’s the wrong thought and I can cast it out.
Preaching on this, I had a man in his 50’s who came to me and said, “Pastor, for the first time in my life I can look in the mirror and say, “I like what I see!”.
That’s beautiful! Meditating on the words unlocks the meaning and produces faith.
It is a process.
Forgiveness is more about you that the person that you have to forgive. Unforgiveness is a poison that ruins your life and not the life of the perpetrator.
The analogy I use is a person who just had a tumor removed. It still hurts, it is still tender, and you still have to keep it clean until it heals. If you touch and poke at the location it was removed before it heals, it will get infected and continue the process of killing its host. But once the location is healed, a scar remains but you can touch it and it doesn’t hurt.
The Operation: Forgiveness starts with a heartfelt decision to say “Lord, I release this person into your hands as I forgive them”. When done from the heart, the tumor is eradicated but it is still tender and the stitches are still there.
The Care: The antiseptic is prayer - pray for the person that God would reach their heart. The gauze is to remind your self that on such a day you forgave them. It is still tender and it still hurts but you change the gauze every time when you start meditating on the hurt your response is “NO, I RELEASED THAT PERSON on such a date, and you pray for that person again placing more anticeptic.
Whatever you think about is like a milk bottle to a baby, it grows. If you think about the hurt, the hurt grows and becomes a tumor again. If you think about the release and the prayer, healing grows.
The Healing. When it is healed, you still have a scar that reminds you of what happened but you can talk about it (poke at it) and it doesn’t hurt. That is how you know you are finally completely healed.
Of course, forgiveness does not translate into getting yourself into a place to be hurt again.
I like it.
That can make for some real beautiful work.
That's wonderful you were so respectful upon leaving... Too many times it seems when groups go separate ways, there are hard feelings.
That is how it should be! Work as a team, not an opposition.
We are running about 450 on Sundays.
Yes… when I raised my brother when my father died, he was the age of my youngest daughter.
When we raised my wife’s two sisters - the youngest is about the age of my oldest son.
Easter morning 1991.
Yes it was. Ministry can leave a bad taste but they enjoyed the journey and loved the years of growing up. We are a tight family.
LOL Another long list.
One that always brings joy in my heart is a young 17 year old who came to our church. One baby and another on the way. Married to a drug pusher.
As she says, “One night I had a gun with two bullets. I thought if this is life, I could kill my son with one bullet and then kill myself and my pregnancy with the other.” But she didn’t go through with it.
Giving her life to Jesus, she found new life and new living. She divorced her husband and started raising her children. Went to our Bible University. Started working for Harris L3 and got sent all over the US because of her ability. Her children are now enrolled iin the same Bible University - they are an AMAZING two children, filled with life and purpose and thankful!
Now, remarried, just had a baby with her and her new husband who helped raise her children and a real estate investor and music composer.
So many lives changed. Each one important!
I’d be divorced and a general failure had it not been for my heart being invaded by God’s love!
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It's a great blessing to be able to let all sorts of thoughts go without obsessing about them or putting them into action.
Amen
How wonderful
To me a real miracle is a heart willing to open to Divine Love.
I notice self judgement causes a lot of people to give up(and something I've struggled with as well). "If I can't do it perfectly, I oughta not do it at all."Of course, the answer to that question can be endless.
Probably one of the first that helped me immensely was the words of Paul in 2 Cor 10:1-6 that lines up with the temptation of Jesus Matt 4:-11 in reference to thoughts.
So many people think they are horrible or not good Christians because of the thoughts that run through our minds. No matter what the level of how constant they are, thoughts, mental arguments, imaginations or even if it is in a stronghold in your mind, it does not dictate who you are and you can overcome it by the weapons that Jesus gives us. His Word and His Holy Spirit.
I think that's a healthy attitude.
That's wonderful!
I'm sure its a true gift to watch people's lives take such positive ways.
That's a very good analogy... Accurate.
How does one assure they're actually forgiving, and not suppressing?
Is forgiveness a common theme you end up working with congregation members on?
Yes!
No, it does not. I would say I often find myself having to coach people in this thought... Forgive, let go... It doesn't mean to let the person violate you again. Maintaining a healthy distance if necessary doesn't mean you haven't forgiven.
Wow!
We are running about 450 on Sundays.
Did they all grow up to form close relationships due to the living situation?
Yes… when I raised my brother when my father died, he was the age of my youngest daughter.
When we raised my wife’s two sisters - the youngest is about the age of my oldest son.
Good date.
That's wonderful!
Is that video some of their work?
Tragic she got to such a low... But so miraculous she got out.
It seems in the line of work you do, not only do you get to bless others, you get the blessings of hearing stories such as these.
Indeed.
Glad you found what you needed; you've done so well with what you've been given.
That is so true. Although I think practice makes perfect.
I think that's a healthy attitude.
That's wonderful!
I'm sure its a true gift to watch people's lives take such positive ways.
That's a very good analogy... Accurate.
Thank you for all the above.
I think that is a difficult question. We certainly do have the potential of convincing ourselves we have even when we haven’t.
There are a couple of checkpoints we can exercise:
- When we pray for that person, can we feel a sincerity in our hearts
- When we see the person, do we feel anger rising
- When we talk about the past, do you still feel the pain (no scar tissue has been formed)
ALWAYS! - It is the one area that we have the most opportunity to not do. Offenses always are there to take or not to take. It is also a short-circuit to faith and a prayer life.
BRAVO! We have a course in our church called “Boundaries”.
There were some challenges like him calling me “dad”. But the end of that journey was closeness.
That is one of the “not so good” end story though. There was a lot of history between him and my dad because he was wired “on” and “full throttle” and had a bout with porn early on before he came to live with me. When he left to live his life as a RNA.. A lot of mishaps, relationships that didn’t succeed...
He took his life a few years ago.. a sad day. He was a beautiful person who touched lives.
Yes… that is her.
A bright spot in this world of people who are hurting, crying and dying.
It fills our hearts
Yes, those are good check points.That is so true. Although I think practice makes perfect.
Thank you for all the above.
I think that is a difficult question. We certainly do have the potential of convincing ourselves we have even when we haven’t.
There are a couple of checkpoints we can exercise:
Those are good checkpoints. IMV
- When we pray for that person, can we feel a sincerity in our hearts
- When we see the person, do we feel anger rising
- When we talk about the past, do you still feel the pain (no scar tissue has been formed)
What advice would you give a person who tries to forgive, but is unable?
I like that!
I'm so very sorry I hear that...
Wow! Big success!
So glad she turned the ugliness that surrounded her into something beautiful.
What things would you like those reading to know about your religion and faith that we haven't yet covered?
Never been asked that question or had that presented. It always helps to have Jesus in one’s life. If one doesn’t have God, it is so much harder to forgive and can reach the place of “unable”. My wife was raised by an abusive and alcoholic father who never said “I love you”. It took Jesus to weed it out. It did take some time.
Sometimes it is just a matter of teaching (if one has a foundation of the words of Jesus… it helps).
But if one is unable… the alternative is torment while the offender continues living without a care.
Perhaps I would say “Take it a bite size at a time. Start by just not letting it nest in your thoughts - force yourself to think on something else”. Time, with this type of effort, can get someone to a place where it can finally become possible. Within our faith, pray for help and strength.
Yes!
To many people try to change themselves from the outside in. God has created each person with design, purpose and destiny. But like a fish that dies when outside of his/her environment, likewise we end up with pain if we are outside of God. He sees us as a treasure, woos us to Himself and wants to enter into covenant with us so that He can change us from the inside out.
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This seems quite sound.
The outside in... what are some examples of a person doing this?Yes!
To many people try to change themselves from the outside in. God has created each person with design, purpose and destiny. But like a fish that dies when outside of his/her environment, likewise we end up with pain if we are outside of God. He sees us as a treasure, woos us to Himself and wants to enter into covenant with us so that He can change us from the inside out.
This seems quite sound.
The outside in... what are some examples of a person doing this?
Let’s take my friend Ernie battling alcoholism. Goes to AA (a great program) - talks about a “higher power” - meditation, honesty and seeking the higher power.. They make their confession, “My name is Ernie - I am an alcoholic”.
That helped him quite a bit - but he was always looking at himself as an alcoholic and following steps not to fall back because of the fatal attraction. He has a method to guard himself from the desire of the same.
He came to our church and received Jesus as Lord that changed the spirit of man into the image of God. He learned, “My name is Ernie, I am a new creature and i have power over alcohol.” Because his spirit was changed on the inside the desire for it left. Now he helps other people.
Sometimes it is quicker. Lucas walked into the church gave his life to Jesus and the addiction to every type of drug including cocaine, just left with no withdrawal symptom…changed from the inside that manifests itself of the outside.
Many counseling sessions deals with how to cope with one’s issues so that you can live. If it is from the inside out, one doesn’t learn how to cope with the issue, one is freed from the issue. not saying that there aren’t counseling sessions that can free someone… but God changes the inside (like a seed that is planted) - and eventually you see it on the outside.
Hope that is clear.
It is to me.
Someone can through act of will make his actions be according to his understanding of what is needed. That is action through a sense of duty. And that kind of action, while positive does not free someone. There might be satisfaction but no true joy. That to me is outside in.
Someone with real joyous love in their heart feels freedom in spite of physical or psychological issues. They may stumble and fall, but like a little child in a loving family, they know that they are loved and that love leads naturally to overcoming issues not from duty but from the love in their heart.