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Iran Nuclear Agreement

Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Revoltingest said:
Of course.
But every ill spoken word from Iran is flaunted as a reason to attack.
Yet US & Israelistan make very real plans to attack Iran.....& they wonder why Iran is so hostile.
They aren't aware of their own hypocrisy & malevolence.
Click to expand...

Such is the world of politics.
 
Flankerl

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Revoltingest said:
Tis not my ability to differentiate which is the root problem here.
It's more that your paranoia is leading to misguided war lust at the expense
of others, & a complete failure to respect the history & lives of Iranians.
Click to expand...

So its paranoia if they are actually trying to kill you.
Okay.


Revoltingest said:
Not recently & overtly.
But Iran has suffered more at the hands of Americastan than Israel has by all of its
enemies combined during the same period. To understand the great loss of life
they've suffered would go a long way to designing a less combative foreign policy
to make them less of a threat.
Click to expand...

So because the US instigated a coup and supported Iraq while the USSR supported Iran(aka the Cold War in a nutshell) I have to accept that Iran and its henchmen might just murder a few Jews. I mean who cares its after all their own fault.


Revoltingest said:
In case you haven't noticed, so have US & Israel.
(Do you like how I co-opted your modus operandi there?)
Click to expand...

Holy crap I don't give a **** about what your USA has done. I am not a US citizen, nor do I live there. Also the Jews in Buenos Aires weren't US citizens.
Neither were those in Bulgaria on their tour.


Revoltingest said:
And still, you don't acknowledge that a million Iranians died in an unprovoked attack upon them by Iraq, with extensive US support, including WMDs. To understand this is to grok why Iran would pursue nuclear weaponry. The problem is that they need WMDs. Tis this need which should be eliminated, rather than Iran's capability.

So many ferriners & domestic fundies, particularly the paranoid militaristic Zionists, are so cavalier about embroiling us in yet another war with massive loss of life over decades. They eschew peace in favor of crushing enemies. This is neither successful in the short run, nor a sustainable model in the long run.
Click to expand...

How would you know what I acknowledge and what not? Also Iranian causalities would have been lower if they hadn't sent out all those suicide squads. But hey at least they got a key for Paradise.

And they need WMDs? Well how about not antagonising the West 24/7? But then again the whole "Death to Israel" stuff is just their culture, right?

Also fun fact: I am not even in favour of a war with Iran. Crazy huh?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Flankerl said:
So its paranoia if they are actually trying to kill you.
Okay.
Click to expand...
Paranoia comes into play when you over-estimate the risk, & then over-react by advocating a pre-emptive attack on a country.
So because the US instigated a coup and supported Iraq while the USSR supported Iran(aka the Cold War in a nutshell) I have to accept that Iran and its henchmen might just murder a few Jews. I mean who cares its after all their own fault.
Click to expand...
There are more lives at stake than just Jewish ones.
And non-Jewish lives matter too.
Holy crap I don't give a **** about what your USA has done. I am not a US citizen, nor do I live there. Also the Jews in Buenos Aires weren't US citizens.
Neither were those in Bulgaria on their tour.
Click to expand...
You needn't care, but you should understand what motivates Iran's desire for a strong military, including nuclear weapons.
They've been attacked repeatedly, & with WMDs, resulting in a far greater loss of life than Israel has ever experienced.
It's happened before, & it could easily happen to them again.
I argue that it's better to address this fear of theirs, than to attack them for the purpose of destroying their military capability.
That only postpones their eventual arming up somehow, & being far more motivated to use their might.
How would you know what I acknowledge and what not?
Click to expand...
I read your posts.
I see concern only for Jews & Israel.
Also Iranian causalities would have been lower if they hadn't sent out all those suicide squads. But hey at least they got a key for Paradise.
Click to expand...
You seem to argue that their military techniques were feckless.
Nonetheless, they suffered that many deaths in an unprovoked attack by foreign powers, including Israeli allies.
To dismiss their losses is to fail to understand what motivates them.
To not understand is to greatly limit one's ability to address the problem.
And they need WMDs? Well how about not antagonising the West 24/7? But then again the whole "Death to Israel" stuff is just their culture, right?
Click to expand...
They yell "death to Israel" & "death to America".
You, many politicians here & in Israel want them killed, & their country neutered.
Military action could settle it temporarily.
I prefer the peaceful & more enduring alternative.
Also fun fact: I am not even in favour of a war with Iran. Crazy huh?
Click to expand...
But you appear to take the side of a military attack upon Iran.
Given the likelihood that this would lead to war sooner or later, this approach is effectively pro-war.
If I misunderstand your posts, please explain.
 
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J

Jake1001

Computer Simulator
This thread has been quiet the last few days. Can someone please give us an update? I believe the vote is coming soon. I am becoming more interested in M. E. politics.

Also, I imagine that this is going to be a fairly important issue in the 2016 Presidential Election. Can you give your thoughts about which candidates have the right ideas about this topic ?
 
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RocketJSquirell

RocketJSquirell

Member
Well, here is an update of sorts:

President Obama may be celebrating his "victory" in achieving the support of 1/3 of the Senate for his "agreement" with Iran (If this were a treaty, and thus actually binding on anyone, it would have failed, since treaties require 2/3'rds approval of the Senate) we find out that the agreement is unraveling faster than it can be approved.

Is this agreement a big big big win for the US or just another failed policy initiative in which good intentions send us further down the road to heck?


Parchin inspection plan won’t work, IAEA’s credibility on the line, says ex-deputy

http://www.timesofisrael.com/parchi...ail&utm_term=0_adb46cec92-09da620578-54410385


www.timesofisrael.com/parchin-inspection...
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
rocketjsquirell said:
Tehran brags at superpowers’ ‘surrender’ in nuclear deal
Khamenei website publishes poster hailing Iran as foremost regional power;
Click to expand...
Self congratulatory bluster of the sort government officials commonly produce. It's mostly for domestic consumption.
I remember about a decade ago when Bush landed a fighter jet on a ship off the coast of San Diego and crowed "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"
Same crap, different agenda.
Tom
 
J

Jake1001

Computer Simulator
RocketJSquirell said:
Well, here is an update of sorts:

President Obama may be celebrating his "victory" in achieving the support of 1/3 of the Senate for his "agreement" with Iran (If this were a treaty, and thus actually binding on anyone, it would have failed, since treaties require 2/3'rds approval of the Senate) we find out that the agreement is unraveling faster than it can be approved.

Is this agreement a big big big win for the US or just another failed policy initiative in which good intentions send us further down the road to heck?


Parchin inspection plan won’t work, IAEA’s credibility on the line, says ex-deputy

http://www.timesofisrael.com/parchi...ail&utm_term=0_adb46cec92-09da620578-54410385


www.timesofisrael.com/parchin-inspection...
Click to expand...
I would agree that a high degree of transparency will be necessary.
 
RocketJSquirell

RocketJSquirell

Member
Jayhawker - you are probably correct.

. - - -- - - -- - - -- .

A voice of reason on the Iran deal. What a shame no one is listening.

How would you vote if your children’s lives were at stake?


...

The American credibility essential to mediating and guaranteeing peace will also have vanished. Having falsely promised that Iran will never possess the right to enrich uranium and retain underground facilities, Israelis and other Middle East partners will unlikely place their trust in the United States.

...

Nor can they escape that horror by traveling abroad. Iran is the world’s foremost state-sponsor of terror, plotting attacks in thirty cities across five continents. Iran is responsible for the murder of hundreds of American soldiers in Iraq, the murder and maiming of thousands of Israelis. But Iran’s support for global terror is not even mentioned by the deal. It never considers how a massive influx of cash, combined with international legitimacy, might enhance Iran’s ability to strike at “soft” targets such Ariel and Romi.

Advocates of the Iran deal must ask themselves one question. Would they support it if the lives of their children and grandchildren depended on it? Mine do. Indeed, the deal will threaten all of our families — Israeli as well as American — for generations to come.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/on-t...ail&utm_term=0_adb46cec92-be611218ab-55047885
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Jake1001 said:
Good article, Friedman usually has a realistic view about ME issues. This article underscores our need to be independent of ME oil.
Click to expand...
We already are independent of it, & have been for some time.
I don't think that's why we've been in any recent conflicts there.
 
RocketJSquirell

RocketJSquirell

Member
Columbus

I see you are quoting a sentence from an article I posted as if I said it. Please try not to do that in the future. However, Iran is responsible for the deaths of many Americans in Iraq and you might remember the Americans killed in Lebanon by Iran back when St. Ronald was President and you might recall the attack on the US embassy (an attack on an embassy is an attack on a country). The US has not attacked Iran for years. In fact never has attacked Iran, although quite some time ago it interfered in its politics and arguable ousted one government in favor of another. Iran is seeking a nuclear weapon so that it can 1. eliminate Israel and commit genocide, 2. project its power and gain hegemony in the region and 3. to attack the great Satan (which is the US). Iran's leaders are not going to be discouraged from using the bomb or any other military might simply because their opponents may be more powerful than they are or because they will suffer horendous damages in a war. They are on a "mission from god" so they operate on different principles than we do.

The Iranian threat to its neighbors and to the US is real. We should take it seriously. We do not seem to be doing so.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
RocketJSquirell said:
Columbus

I see you are quoting a sentence from an article I posted as if I said it. Please try not to do that in the future.
Click to expand...
You did not even put quote marks around it. Was any of the post yours? RF has a pretty clear rule about plagiarism. I recommend putting things like that in bold or italics. I don't think just putting a link is sufficient attribution, although I am not an authority on RF rules.
Tom
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
RocketJSquirell said:
The US has not attacked Iran for years. In fact never has attacked Iran, although quite some time ago it interfered in its politics and arguable ousted one government in favor of another.
Click to expand...

You may have this blinkered view of the history between USA and Iran, but most people don't. Not everyone in the world has the Usonians penchant for revising history.
Certainly the Iranian government does not. The main reason they want the bomb so much is self protection.
Tom
 
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