Iran sentences LGBTQ woman to death for spreading corruption on earth.

[KWED]

To me those words do not mean to fight with weapons or fists. It means keep telling the truth they believe in no matter what others say. Fighting does not have to be by weapon.

The verse also says "until they are subdued". So clearly not talking about preaching or persuading. Also, every other occasion where the same word (qatilu) is used in the Quran refers to physical fighting. The other form of the word means "kill". You are simply wrong.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Quran Dictionary

 

[Spirit of Light]

The verse also says "until they are subdued". So clearly not talking about preaching or persuading. Also, every other occasion where the same word (qatilu) is used in the Quran refers to physical fighting. The other form of the word means "kill". You are simply wrong.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Quran Dictionary

Fighting means when it is war, not in time of peace.
I see no further reason to discuss because as usual you don't look for solution, only a way to critique more.

I am out.

 

[KWED]

@rational experiences I am trying to understand what you say in your reply. But honestly i do not understand it at all.

Don't bother. I think it's an automated random text generator.

 

[KWED]

Fighting means when it is war, not in time of peace.

So you admit that your initial claim was wrong, so now you make another one that is not supported by the actual texts. And if someone starts fighting, then it becomes a time of war, unless the other side simply gives in (which is what all the "but if they seek peace, do not fight them" references mean). Although when the Meccan's asked Muhammad for peace, he ignored them and invaded anyway, so even then those passages don't mean much in practice.

I see no further reason to discuss because as usual you don't look for solution, only a way to critique more.

The solution is for Muslims to accept that the Quran is no longer fit for purpose and needs revising to suit current circumstances.
The solution is not to keep claiming that it doesn't mean what it says, because it clearly does to many people.
The solution is to condemn and reject those passages that clearly call for violence, intolerance and discrimination, or that can be interpreted as such.

Your thought on these solutions?

 

[KWED]

Hitler is dead and gone. Only an idiot bothers to hate him.

So now you are calling many Holocaust survivors and their relatives "idiots".
Nice!

 

[KWED]

Well i understand the text different than you, because it seems like you only see negative in Islam, I dont.

Er, whuh?
I quoted the opinion of one of Islam's most respected and widely-referenced scholars. Do you think he was only seeing the negative in Islam?

And each person are free to understand their way.

Indeed, but it makes god's word pretty meaningless if we can all make up our own version of what it means.
Also, if a passage says "The punishment for X is Y", it is pretty weird to then claim that X is not prohibited and Y is not allowed. That's just denial.

 

[KWED]

God is never wrong in my belief.

This is where arguing from dogma and belief gets you into knots.
You claim that killing is always wrong.
Yet you also claim that god is never wrong, even when he prescribes killing.
So you therefore accept that killing is not wrong, so all your arguments against apparent killing in the Quran fall apart.

How people understand Gods message will be different.
I choose to not harm others.

But you accept that if others understand the the words "fight those who believe not in Allah", etc to mean fight those who believe not in Allah, then they are not wrong to do so.

If my neighbour harm their kids, I would call the police

But earlier you said you should concentrate on your own faults before trying to deal with the faults of others.
Now you are saying that we should get involved with other people's faults.

Some consistency please.

 

[firedragon]

The text is in Arabic. I don't speak it, so I rely
upon Muslims say & do. Consider the OP.
While it won't reflect the beliefs of all Muslims,
it's clearly the belief of many that killing those
who believe or are different is from the Koran.
Do you see anything negative in Islam?

You just contradicted yourself.

You said that you dont know arabic, but you rely upon what Muslims say and do.

The OP is not by a Muslim, so you relied upon an atheist. So that's an utter failure.

Also you relied upon Reuters. Blindly. That's blind belief. Blind faith. That's God to you.

 

[firedragon]

Discussion tends to be unproductive with those
who cry "Blind worship!" while blindly defending
hideous treatment of apostates.

Like you defending murder of innocent Christian priests by Stalin and his atheists driven by hate mongering indoctrination just like you.

 

[PureX]

So now you are calling many Holocaust survivors and their relatives "idiots".
Nice!

If they have been busily hating a dead man for 80 years, yes. What a total waste of time and energy.

 

[stevecanuck]

Mate. No one will miss the Dhal.

You pretended to.

Dont make some bogus nonsense. Silly really. It's like asking "did you miss the D in the word Dog".

You turned seen alif into a ye mate.

THIS GUY IS THE MOST IGNORANT HUMAN BEING I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE PRETENDING TO BE A SCHOLAR.

).

Just more bluster and deflection, but this time in all caps.

 

[stevecanuck]

Living their lives only to demonise a whole set of human beings.

You mean like this >>>>>>> 8:55 - "The most wicked creatures in the sight of God are the unbelievers who never have faith".

 

[stevecanuck]

The trick to play is this.

1. take Iran and what they have done supposedly as reported by Reuters.
2. generalise it to the Qur'an
3. thus attempt to demonise Islam as a whole

No generalizing is necessary. Iran's charge against these women is that they committed "corruption on earth". Verse 5:33 uses that exact phrase to define (along with those who make war on Allah and his messenger) who should be put to death. It's a straight line connection no matter how much you fret and fume.

 

[stevecanuck]

The only whacko Muslims who'd want to try are the ones who are busy killing eachother. But far many more are peaceful and reasonable Muslims who we are already living peacefully with eachother.

Okay.

 

[stevecanuck]

Yes, views are not a problem, it is the way it is put forward that can become a problem. Only seeing a topic from a negative P.O.W is maybe not a good way to debate. Often a topic has many ways to be viewd.

Okay, the Qur'an says to be good and fair to orphans and divorced wives.

 

[stevecanuck]

To me those words do not mean to fight with weapons or fists. It means keep telling the truth they believe in no matter what others say. Fighting does not have to be by weapon.

Research the word 'qatl'.

 

[stevecanuck]

So you should tell the OP person that the Reuters is not God.

But, Reuters IS God. I have said so many times in this thread alone.

It must be true if it's punctuated with a winky face.

 

[Revoltingest]

You just contradicted yourself.

You said that you dont know arabic, but you rely upon what Muslims say and do.

This might help you understand how to use the word.
Definition of contradiction | Dictionary.com

 

[Revoltingest]

Like you defending murder of innocent Christian priests by Stalin...

Try citing the supporting post that you imagine exists.
This will help you learn how to converse.

 

[Revoltingest]

Don't bother. I think it's an automated random text generator.

A Turing Test?