I haven't read the Koran or hadiths. But I see what
happens every time Islam melds with government.
It's a hideous result for liberty. So there's something
fundamentally troubling there, no matter what flavor
one believes.
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Iran sentences LGBTQ woman to death for spreading corruption on earth.
- Thread starter stevecanuck
- Start date
happens every time Islam melds with government.
It's a hideous result for liberty. So there's something
fundamentally troubling there, no matter what flavor
one believes.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I would suggest it, even if just to debate against it better.
I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, Iranian clerics have taken "corruption on earth" to include being LGBT, which is a hard-line view. How is this supposed to be an inherent issue with the Qur'an itself?
I suppose you could argue that, but realistically, Muslims aren't going to just scrap their central holy book. So a more practical approach is to support reasonable interpretations of scripture, in my opinion.
Now let him try to do it and see him get the death penalty. Sorry, the shoe doesn't fit.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Fasad means corruption. Not "corruption on earth".
The whole thesis in the OP is false.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Horrible. A stark and sickening reminder of why we ought not mix religion with politics.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I must have missed that.Of course, this has to be turned around on Christians somehow. This place is pathetically predictable.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a perfectly reasonable response to this thread to me.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
What difference does that make? I saw that the Saudi government is claiming that they are guilty of human trafficking. That may be the case. And that does not justify the death penalty. Since the people reacting about this called them gay activists it appears to be more likely to me that they were helping other gay women escape that tyrannical regime.
stvdv
Veteran Member
That's what @stevecanuck said, "fasad means corruption", he did not say "corruption on earth"
Hence the whole thesis in the OP is not false
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I will never be convinced Islam is a religion of peace.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Another departure from the OP.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Correct. Verse 5:33 says it. "f'il ardi fasadan" means "in the earth spreading corruption".
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran
stvdv
Veteran Member
Iran's Khamenei says homosexuality example of West's immorality
I just wonder how Khamenei thinks he gets away for killing people, as Allah (God) is said to be all knowing AND not so big on killing His Creation ("kill one and you kill humanity" comes to mind").
Corruption of God's Love I see in Islam still
All the Muslims who condone this LGBT killing or even "love it". It seems to me that many Muslims are still enthusiastic to kill gay (LGBTX..) people...as if we were still living in the Barbarian Era; says enough to me, that it's called Barbarian Era...nothing to be proud of or repeat/continue.
Nice talking about morality, but their actions...not so nice (Barbarian is more accurate)
Quoted from Pew research:
Most Muslims agree on certain moral principles. For example, in nearly all countries surveyed, a majority says it is necessary to believe in God to be a moral person. There also is widespread agreement that some behaviors – including drinking alcohol, sex outside marriage, homosexuality and committing suicide – are immoral.
Most Muslims in Central Asia as well as Southern and Eastern Europe also agree that belief in God is necessary to be moral,
As with suicide, most Muslims believe that euthanasia – defined in the survey as ending the life of an incurably ill person – is morally wrong
I don't get Muslim logic...euthanasia is morally wrong, but those who point fingers at those committing euthanasia gladly kill the same homosexual euthanasia contemplating person (Islam is totally illogical to me on this issue)
Too bad they did not have the question "killing the gay away is okay (yes/no?)"
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
I wasn't aware that you've read the Qur'an and hadiths.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Now you're just being disingenuous. You know very well that the entire phrase is "f'il ardi fasidan". You do know what "fi'll ardi" means, don't you?
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
How is whataboutism reasonable? It's a deflection device and nothing more.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Thank you for bringing that up, because it exposes one of the Islamopropagandists' favorite lies. You're referring to the quote in the previous verse (5:32 - which is told in the context of the Cane and Abel story):
"For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever kills a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind.
"For other than", being the deal-breaker. Have you noticed how many times this verse is quoted WITHOUT the qualifier? Verse 5:33 then completes the thought by saying that such people should be killed. Whenever an apologist tries to tell you that Islam is all unicorns and rainbows, they are lying.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Not to mention, Jews follow the Old Testament, which is very violent, but actually, the most Orthodox Jews in Israel, a nation whose flag is a religious Hebrew prayer shawl, and a religious star associated with the warrior King, who was also a religious prophet of a rigid religious theocracy, their coat of arms is a religious candle, and yet even in Israel, none of the laws in Scripture commanding adulterers , homosexuals, or people working on sabbath, or blasphemers to be executed, none of them are allowed by Israeli law to carry out those barbaric policies, neither does the vast majority of rabbis, if any, even want those scriptures to be enforced in the 21st century, not anywhere on earth.
Muslims, by the hundreds of millions, actually favor killing people for crimes not even illegal , or something you cannot even legally beat someone for, or hit your children for in America, to this day. They actually kill their children with "honor killings", for the stupidest offenses.
The entire nation of Saudi Arabia, that is the most sacred place Muslims are required to go on holy pilgrimage to, has laws that are so sick, so misogynistic, so oppressive, so brutal, so bigoted, it has stuff even more crazy than in Nazi Germany.
Jews cannot have a synagogue in Saudi Arabia because it is illegal, Jews are not safe living there, and other Islamic countries that don't make it illegal to have a synagogue, like Pakistan, you won't find a synagogue, because it would be so unsafe for such a structure in Pakistan.
Saudi Arabia has put fellow Muslims in jail for up to 10 years for starting an online blog which doesn't even attack the religion, just states the government is too oppressive with it.
The Bible has genocide many thousands of years ago, but the old testament doesn't glorify sadistic, cruel, psychopathic tortures, amputations, pouring boiling water on faces of Israel's enemies.
The Quran essentially says it is holy, sacred, beautiful , when enemies of Muhammad have hands and feet cut off, and are crucified , burned, and humiliated.
Enemies of Muhammad were often young drafted men, defending their women and children, from a violent invader, with Dictatorial power, trampling rights, and destroying what non Muslims hold as sacred. Why should they be humiliated, tortured, and their limbs amputated, for defending women , children, their beliefs, and their hometown being attacked?
If I wrote that and handed it to my psychiatrist, saying it was sacred writing from a celestial being or God, my Doctor would say I am the epitome of psychopathic, a threat to society, and would recommend I be heavily medicated, held in a facility , to protect myself and others.
Islam is irrefutably , undeniably, more guilty of violence, bigotry, intolerant regimes, misogyny, hate-speech, and governments robbing hundreds of millions of people of liberty, in my lifetime, than all other religions combined.
The sick thing is, President Barak Obama, and many American politicians say on TV, "we cannot call ISIS radical Islamic extremists because they are not Islamic, they hijacked a peaceful religion".
Americans actually swallow that obvious falsehood, hook, line, and sinker.
All you have to do is open the Koran and find more calls to bigotry, violence, psychopathic torture, and hate, than anything I have even read coming from any Dictator of the 20th century.
Also, the lifestyle of Muhammad and early Muslims, was a lot like leaders of groups like ISIS, in the destruction of what others hold as sacred, and total religious bigotry, that after his death, was followed by Islam conquering North Africa with the sword, conquering most of Spain, in a war with Spaniards that lasted almost 700 years on Spanish soil.
They attacked France, and fought a lot to conquer France, until Charles Martel defeated them at Tours , and chased them out.
Muslims in the Ottoman Empire repeatedly attacked Europe, taking away children in some of the worse sex slavery, in the Turkish sex trade, that lasted until the 20th century, and the Ottoman Empire likely would have conquered Italy and much of Europe, if their fleet was not miraculously sunk at Lepanto, known as "the battle that saved the west."
They were also miraculously defeated when they attacked Austria.
Most Muslims in contemporary Europe and America are very candid about their distaste for Democracy, and would rather we were dominated by Shari'a.
Even American Muslims who think Saudi Arabia is too strict, have often said they prefer America had the laws of Saudi Arabia, over what we have, as more holy and conducive for saving souls, and keeping women veiled , to avoid stirring up lust and sexual frustration.
So, that said, I appreciate you making your threads about Islam, because it isn't right when so many Islamic Theocracies can cause so much agony, behave like hate groups, like the epitome of bigoted hate groups, and they often don't get a slap on the wrist... and no one , hardly anyone, actually wants to point out that their religion and holy book creates some of the worst crimes against humanity, arguably the worst, and worst bigotry, of any organization, form of government, religion, or philosophy in our contemporary world.
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