Iranian Nuclear Weapons Program halted in 20003

[angellous_evangellous]

I agree. At the moment I think US intelligence agencies are more prudent than the president, and thank goodness they are conducting themselves the way that they are.

That judgment may be a bit hastey.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sometimes it's prudent to prepare for the worst-case scenario and, in fact, irresponsible not to do so.

I agree. At the moment I think US intelligence agencies are more prudent than the president, and thank goodness they are conducting themselves the way that they are.

I found that to be a very strange response.

 

[Mathematician]

I know of no one who can render the tu quoque fallacy quite as absurd as you, Gene. It's a gift.

If you were taking that post as a serious statement I may need to throw some gobstobbers your way.

 

[Mathematician]

On a similar note, I'm happy to see the Israeli people are not enthralled in the drum beating.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If you were taking that post as a serious statement I may need to throw some gobstobbers your way.

No. I do not take you seriously.

On a similar note, I'm happy to see the Israeli people are not enthralled in the drum beating.

Israel is 'enthralled' with preventing an Iran-sponsored final solution.

 

[Mathematician]

Right. And if this means provoking war with Iran for its attempt to attain nuclear power, or weapons [which, as opposed to energy, can't be proven], that somehow falls under the category of being acceptable. Israel, and America for that matter, have no more right to decide what Iran can and can't have than Venezuela does America. If Israel feels threatened by the presence of another nuclear power in its region it should have realized in advance of attaining their own arsenal that arming itself would lead to an arms race. Pakistan and India. The United States and the USSR. China and America. Its a historical lesson that apparently some countries are unwilling to learn.

The poor Israel potboiler doesn't cut it here. If Israel is serious about wanting to stop the Iranian search for nuclear power and prevent war it can at least bring the possibility of disarmament to the table.

 

[McBell]

Iranian Nuclear Weapons Program halted in 20003
in all honesty, I can say that I can really care less if Iran halts their Nuclear Weapons Program some 17,996 years from now.

 

[kiwimac]

Iran has never proposed a 'final solution.'

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

This is HUGE news. It shows that our intelligence reports were wrong once again. It is just nice to know that this time Bush and his cronies didn't "jump the gun" and attack Iran on the basis of a nuclear weapons program like he attacked Iraq on the basis of their supposed WMD's. Now I just hope that Bush and many of his fellow republicans can talk serious about Iran and open the door for diplomacy which has been needed for years now. They cannot use the fear card on any of us now. They are not a nuclear threat at this time and should be treated appropriately...Now if we could just learn to take our intelligence reports with a grain of salt.

What's even worse is the incredible stupidity of many Americans who STILL blindly believe our absurdly incompetent president.

Hey, I'm all up for tactical strikes on uranium facilities. Just don't complain if the Chinese do it to us for actually using the bomb.

This is really worth mentioning.

Frankly, it grows tiresome of this president having drummed the Iraq drum, and now the Iran drum, when China is like a 100x worse long-term threat. And what has Bush done to deal with the growing threat of China? Jack ****. I swear, the man is probably too cowardly to fight a leader his own size.

 

[YmirGF]

It is no surprise that I am fully on Jay's side of this discussion. I do not consider Iran to be a threat at this time. However, the president of Iran is subservient to the religious leaders and he is merely a mouthpiece. He has very little "real" power without their nod of approval.

The next point is that the various intelligence agencies will bluntly admit that their intelligence gather ability is seriously hampered in Iran and the Mid-east in general. Any reports issued should be viewed with this "on the ground" reality kept in mind. In many cases, such reports will be mere supposition which is a polite way of saying "best guessing".

Further to this, I am greatly amused by the concept of Israel acquiescing to the idea of dismantling her nuclear capability as a show of "good faith". Given the realities of the tensions she has with her neighbors that would seem to be a rather imprudent route to take. I can well imagine the Arab countries surrounding Israel eagerly agreeing to ANYTHING in the knowledge that Israel was going to drop her drawers and nimbly touch her toes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict the likely reaction of her "peace loving" neighbors.

Back to Iran; people have this tendency to think that Iran has only good intentions and that her dreary little president was misquoted when he suggested that Israel would “disappear from the map”. Regardless how that is accomplished, it doesn't exactly bode well for people sitting in Israel. Given the fact that Hezbully is simply an Iranian "cross-country" team "helping" the poor downtrodden Iraqi people deal with the American/British et al "oppressors", I think it reasonable to conclude that Iran has no genuine interest in neighborhood peace or global peace either. The public tends to forget that not so long ago Iran and Iraq were at each others throats in a long, indecisive and somewhat pointless war.

Another nugget that most westerners do not understand is that Iran has issued an appeal for "right thinking" people to "revert" to Islam. No doubt many of you don't know exactly what that means but I'll tell you one thing. It isn't good for us -- as the request was not given the time of day. That allows Iran to launch ANY offensive she deems fit. Some folks saw a rambling letter that did not seem to make much sense where I saw a very subtly crafted Declaration of War complete with surrender terms. Read it and weep folks. These guys are NOT kidding, and if you want to try to make a deal with these folks and end up getting bitten, I’ll be sitting here chanting, “Ayatolla you so!"

 

[Reverend Rick]

What is hilarious is that the same people who suffer from Bush derangement syndrome want to have it both ways.

They condemn Bush for waiting to confirm the information about Iran and Joe Biden accuses Bush of knowing back in August and calls him a liar.

The same folks condemn Bush for not waiting and confirming the WMD's before invading Iraq.

Which is it folks? Should he jump the gun as soon as he hears any intelligence report or should he wait for conformation first?

Another little tid bit that seems to be ignored is that Iran was not suppose to have EVER had a nuclear weapons program remember? The program that was halted in 2003 was never suppose to have exisisted at all and before this news was released, the Liberal spin was they were just working on nuclear power and NEVER had a weapons program.

All the while, they have advanced their delivery systems. Even France has concerns and they hate the United States and hardly ever agree with the U.S.A. on anything.

 

[sandandfoam]

. Even France has concerns and they hate the United States and hardly ever agree with the U.S.A. on anything.

A little paranoid maybe??

 

[YmirGF]

A little paranoid maybe??

Perhaps you would rather offer Iran tea and cookies?

 

[sandandfoam]

Perhaps you would rather offer Iran tea and cookies?

You miss my point (that perhaps wasn't made clearly enough) which was that to state -" France .... they hate the United States " is a little paranoid.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I honestly think if the US left Iran alone to do it's own conduct it's own business without any outsiders having to interfere, Iran would not pose a threat to the US.

 

[sandandfoam]

I honestly think if the US left Iran alone to do it's own conduct it's own business without any outsiders having to interfere, Iran would not pose a threat to the US.

I don't think so either. I do however think it does to Israel, not enough to warrant invasion, but a threat to be monitored.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So what about Isreal Luke? Are you fine with a second holocaust?

 

[Mathematician]

So what about Isreal Luke? Are you fine with a second holocaust?

That's a logical fallacy if I've ever seen one.

It is no surprise that I am fully on Jay's side of this discussion. I do not consider Iran to be a threat at this time. However, the president of Iran is subservient to the religious leaders and he is merely a mouthpiece. He has very little "real" power without their nod of approval.

Yes, we all realize this. It's also true the Ayatollah criticized President Ahmadinejad for being provocative towards the United States. So where's the disconnect?

Further to this, I am greatly amused by the concept of Israel acquiescing to the idea of dismantling her nuclear capability as a show of "good faith". Given the realities of the tensions she has with her neighbors that would seem to be a rather imprudent route to take. I can well imagine the Arab countries surrounding Israel eagerly agreeing to ANYTHING in the knowledge that Israel was going to drop her drawers and nimbly touch her toes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict the likely reaction of her "peace loving" neighbors.

That's fine. Then don't complain if Iran acquires its own nuke. Or Syria. Or Saudi Arabia. Or Turkey. They're merely protecting their national sovereignty.

Israel has acted as an aggressor. Those in the West and Israel trying to excuse its actions as the work of a "bullied person" is dishonest. The sheer differences in civilian death tolls is enough for that. I think the citizens of Qana wouldn't be too pleased to hear the Western media pay the country of Israel so much lip service.

Back to Iran; people have this tendency to think that Iran has only good intentions and that her dreary little president was misquoted when he suggested that Israel would “disappear from the map”. Regardless how that is accomplished, it doesn't exactly bode well for people sitting in Israel. Given the fact that Hezbully is simply an Iranian "cross-country" team "helping" the poor downtrodden Iraqi people deal with the American/British et al "oppressors", I think it reasonable to conclude that Iran has no genuine interest in neighborhood peace or global peace either. The public tends to forget that not so long ago Iran and Iraq were at each others throats in a long, indecisive and somewhat pointless war.

Hardly. The Iran-Iraq war was Saddam's making. He broke relations with Iran, suppressed the Shi'ite population, and invaded Iran. Maybe if old Ronnie hadn't backed him a lot of the problems in the world wouldn't have occurred.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Isreal has not acted as an aggressor.

 

[Sunstone]

**MOD POST**

Critique each other's ideas all you want, but refrain from attacking each other.

If you cannot abide by that rule, then get out of this thread now.
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