Irish pastor on trial for 'insulting Islam'

[Shadow Wolf]

It doesn't give any parts of the speech, the article mentions something about possibly stirring up hatred. Without knowing what was said, fully and in context, there is no way of knowing what, if anything, should be done.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

They may not fund the churches but UK law gives them some pretty damn good tax breaks!!

Again not so ... they get the same tax breaks as any other qualified charity.
They have no tax breaks for commercial activities.only charitable ones.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Again not so ... they get the same tax breaks as any other qualified charity.
They have no tax breaks for commercial activities.only charitable ones.

... though churches get to count benefits to their own membership as "charitable" in a way that other charities do not.

 

[leibowde84]

There are no internationally agreed total rights of free speech.
during the McCarthy hearings it was clear that the USA did not subscribe to them either.

We do now though. Those were dark days.

 

[Crypto2015]

Paul Weston was imprisoned simply for quoting the following words of Winston Churchill:

'Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

'Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the faith: all know how to die but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

'No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ords-Islam-campaign-speech.html#ixzz3uOwytWeB
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Actually the Church of England is government (and taxpayer) funded. Money for building repairs comes straight out of the Budget as demonstrated here: https://www.churchofengland.org/med...-£40-million-for-church-building-repairs.aspx

This money is pooled from taxpayer's monies from all parts of the UK - even ones where the Church of England doesn't have any significant presence.

There's also chancel repair liability where ordinary citizens are expected to stump up amounts totalling tens of thousands of pounds in order to fix nearby Anglican properties; even if they're not Anglican. This liability can be placed on them even if no mention of it was made in the deed to their property.

There is a distinction between funds given to churches by the various heritage funds for the up keep of public buildings of various sorts And church funds for religious purposes. The Church of England is in the unfortunate position of having a vast number of heritage buildings that it must upkeep and may not sell or dispose of.
It must allow anyone of any faith or none to enter its churches as of right.
Such buildings that are not listed, it can get permission to close and dispose of.
In recent years it has closed many redundant churches.
However there are usually covenants in place as to what must happen to them.

Likewise, as the established church, they must look to the spiritual needs of the entire population , not just Anglicans. They are encompassed by laws as to what they may and may not do.

To day with falling membership they are in a most unenviable financial position.

The Chancel repair Liability is no longer available. there are no church taxes in the UK.

The various Heritage funds derive money from many sources including the government and lottery funds and various established charities set up for this purpose.. Any owner of heritage property can apply for funding for essential repairs. In the case of a church it is always "match funding" and is never more then 50% of the cost.
A down side of applying for such funding is that all repairs must be carried out to particularly onerous standards such as the use of matching original stone and lime mortar and plaster. Wood is usually specified as English oak, and metal work gutters and down pipes as cast iron matching the original. design.
There is no economy option.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

btw I think (hope) this case will get thrown out and is a total waste of tax payers money.

The Context in northern Ireland is especially incendiary in regard to religious bigotry and violence.
It would not be very helpful to extend the Protestant and Catholic violence to a Tripartite one with Muslims.
I hope they come down hard in the case and nip this prospect in the bud.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

There is a distinction between funds given to churches by the various heritage funds for the up keep of public buildings of various sorts And church funds for religious purposes.

Regardless, it is still pooled from general taxation - thus it is government-funded.

Likewise, as the established church, they must look to the spiritual needs of the entire population , not just Anglicans. They are encompassed by laws as to what they may and may not do.

It's the established church of England & Wales; not of Scotland - as Scotland has no established church - and yet it still receives funding from Scottish tax monies.

The Chancel repair Liability is no longer available. there are no church taxes in the UK.

Yes it is. There is talk of abolishing it: the House of Lords has debated it (transcript here: http://www.lawandreligionuk.com/2015/01/19/house-of-lords-debates-chancel-repair-liability/) but no decision is forthcoming. At least, I've not found anything. If you can find something more recent I'd be happy for you to prove me wrong.

As of 2013, CRL is still tied to certain properties by adding mention of the liability into appropriate title registers.

See here: http://www.trowers.com/uploads/File..._repair_liability_changes_will_affect_you.pdf

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Regardless, it is still pooled from general taxation - thus it is government-funded.
It's the established church of England & Wales; not of Scotland - as Scotland has no established church - and yet it still receives funding from Scottish tax monies.
The Heritage funds do receive some money from the Government who in turn distribute it for heritage purposes. one of these recipients is the church for the repair of public heritage buildings. Scottish churches also befit from this.... as do all heritage buildings in the UK.



Yes it is. There is talk of abolishing it: the House of Lords has debated it (transcript here: http://www.lawandreligionuk.com/2015/01/19/house-of-lords-debates-chancel-repair-liability/) but no decision is forthcoming. At least, I've not found anything. If you can find something more recent I'd be happy for you to prove me wrong.

As of 2013, CRL is still tied to certain properties by adding mention of the liability into appropriate title registers.

See here: http://www.trowers.com/uploads/File..._repair_liability_changes_will_affect_you.pdf

It may still exist in a very few ancient leased properties especially where buildings were put up in Cathedral precincts. But will be extremely rare.
It is hardly different to a maintenance charge on a flat, in a tower block, where the lessee is responsible for the upkeep of public spaces and the repair to the fabric.

Even freehold properties in the UK can be subject to ransom strips and onerous terms in the original lease that may go back many generations.
The first house I bought in Kent had about 20 covenanted conditions. That went back to the original land owner.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Context in northern Ireland is especially incendiary in regard to religious bigotry and violence.
It would not be very helpful to extend the Protestant and Catholic violence to a Tripartite one with Muslims.
I hope they come down hard in the case and nip this prospect in the bud.

Do hard crackdowns have any less of an incendiary history in Northern Ireland?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It seems like Irish priests have a habit of being insulting....

 

[MARCELLO]

An evangelical pastor is in a Northern Irish court because he called Islam "satanic" and "heathen" during a sermon he had streamed over the Internet.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...rts-with-hour-of-service-on-dvd-34284348.html

From the report: "He faces two charges - improper use of a public electronic communications network and causing a grossly offensive message to be sent by means of a public electronic communications network - after remarks made at Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle were streamed online."

What do people think of this? Should it be a crime to condemn a belief system in this manner? Should the law differentiate between condemning a belief system and its adherents?

Personally, I think this is being used as a blasphemy law to silence Islam's critics.

That is amazing....

I do love human rights stuff which advises me to contribute what I earned to aliens who have no doubt to bomb me. Shamelesness is for sure, a taboo,called tradition. I cannot make any comment about ninja turtles dressed though we have to obey the principles of human rights.... A fat portion of my income will be dedicated to the ones who deserves nothing.

 

[Altfish]

Again not so ... they get the same tax breaks as any other qualified charity.
They have no tax breaks for commercial activities.only charitable ones.

The poor destitute churches, one of the biggest landowners in the country only gets tax breaks on it charitable activities. A good accountant would ensure that they pay the minimum and most of their activities are charitable anyway under the UK's lax laws.
I pay taxes on every penny I earn, I don't get any breaks for the charitable work I do.

 

[MARCELLO]

Let me tell you what I face right now... The yemenis are forcing me to to pay for the invoices that they cannot prove ,they have signed these invoices on behalf of us. Sure fake signatures. Pls tell me what to do? It is more than 20 thousand usd? I have just told them to see the court to prove. This is how you get oriental trading,damn it. . Since we are white europeans we have to pay for they produce in front of me,sure I won't . I am sooooo happy that God demolishes and destroys Yemen. That's what they deserve . I have already asked help from my embassy for help.

Ohh God, pls,you know better than me. I am done with muslims.(disgusting yemenis) I am about to leave for xmas but this vermits think opposite. I need an international advocate to oppose these vermits. I know that they cannot do anything,but the vermits will try.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I am done with muslims.

Am I included?

 

[GoodbyeDave]

He was charged with sending grossly offensive message over the internet under the 2003 Communications Act. This is pretty widely drawn to enable, for example, cyberbullying to be tackled. But the Director of Public Prosecutions has stated that the law should not be applied save when the material goes beyond what is "offensive, shocking or disturbing; or satirical, iconoclastic or rude; or the expression of unpopular; or unfashionable opinion about serious or trivial matters, or banter or humour, even if distasteful to some or painful to those subjected to it." On that basis, I'd say this is a case of police and prosecutor being officious, and that the case will be thrown out.

 

[Twilight Hue]

An evangelical pastor is in a Northern Irish court because he called Islam "satanic" and "heathen" during a sermon he had streamed over the Internet.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...rts-with-hour-of-service-on-dvd-34284348.html

From the report: "He faces two charges - improper use of a public electronic communications network and causing a grossly offensive message to be sent by means of a public electronic communications network - after remarks made at Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle were streamed online."

I like how governments create the legal jargon to make it sound like something entirely different from the actual "offense".

Like he violated the Irish equivalent of some FCC type regulation.

 

[Altfish]

The Context in northern Ireland is especially incendiary in regard to religious bigotry and violence.
It would not be very helpful to extend the Protestant and Catholic violence to a Tripartite one with Muslims.
I hope they come down hard in the case and nip this prospect in the bud.

Whilst I agree about religious bigotry and violence in NI, we should be using words, reason and facts to show these people up for what they are. The law should be the final straw when people are harmed.
Why are muslims not prosecuted when they call for the death of non-believers? That is more damaging than calling a religion. Non-believers are people, religions are unproven ideas that should be open to debate, criticism and ridicule.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Whilst I agree about religious bigotry and violence in NI, we should be using words, reason and facts to show these people up for what they are. The law should be the final straw when people are harmed.
Why are muslims not prosecuted when they call for the death of non-believers? That is more damaging than calling a religion. Non-believers are people, religions are unproven ideas that should be open to debate, criticism and ridicule.

Muslims are prosecuted when they call for people to be attacked.
the fact is, that they very rarely do say it in the Uk.
"Death to non-belivers" is more often seen in claims that Muslims say it, within posts like yours. Not said by actual Muslims.

People are very sensitive about their faith, it is not someting that they ever wish to debate, especially wth atheists.

Hate crimes of all sorts are usually prosecuited.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The Context in northern Ireland is especially incendiary in regard to religious bigotry and violence.

That could mean that this case is an over-reaction though.