Irony of the evolutionary belief

[shunyadragon]

Objectively speaking, do we create and design things from our intelligence? Objectively speaking, have we evidenced the creation of intelligence from an no intelligence source?

Yes, but that does not remotely represent the claim of Intelligent design or an Intelligent Designer. This is a Theistic argument for necessity of Creation by God, which is NOT Objectively speaking..

 

[shunyadragon]

The Bible is a narrative and story from beginning to end, not a religion. Read and learn

The Bible represents the religious scripture of the many churches of the religion of Christianity, by simple definitions in the English language. This is equally true of the scripture of the other religions. The scripture and beliefs of any religion do not objectively confirm the religious beliefs as true,

 

[Balthazzar]

Yes, but that does not remotely represent the claim of Intelligent design or an Intelligent Designer. This is a Theistic argument for necessity of Creation by God, which is NOT Objectively speaking..

Who is God? Theistically speaking, I mean... Which one? Chaos, Gaia, Cronus, I am that I am, or are they all vessels or personalities of the same thing, or the All? If the All, creator of all the heavens and all the earths, then who's to suggest this earth wasn't created by intelligent design? Objectively speaking, I'm required to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. We know we design things through our intelligence. Why should I forsake that position in favor of no intelligence in our design?

 

[ElishaElijah]

The Bible represents the religious scripture of the many churches of the religion of Christianity, by simple definitions in the English language. This is equally true of the scripture of the other religions. The scripture and beliefs of any religion do not objectively confirm the religious beliefs as true,

Nothing to do with what I said, The Bible is the account of Creation, the story of God and his relationship with His Creation from beginning to the end with Revelation. He told us ahead of time what was going to happen. We see those things happening right now. No one can stop what God said was going to happen. Biology is just one aspect of life that scientists have looked at through a microscope and failed miserably to explain. God did explain in one chapter the reality of the Universe that we live in and that’s a fact.

 

[Balthazzar]

Nothing to do with what I said, The Bible is the account of Creation, the story of God and his relationship with His Creation from beginning to the end with Revelation. He told us ahead of time what was going to happen. We see those things happening right now. No one can stop what God said was going to happen. Biology is just one aspect of life that scientists have looked at through a microscope and failed miserably to explain. God did explain in one chapter the reality of the Universe that we live in and that’s a fact.

The light/dark and good/evil part? I won't disagree with the knowing or understanding life aspects of the bible, but there's still a great deal left unanswered, which is great ... it leaves us room to grow and discover and be wowed over and over and over. Obstacles like intelligent design only or random chain of chemical reactions and process' only limits progress sometimes. There may be a better middle ground open for the possible without clogging our potential to discover something new. We don't, as humans, intelligently design babies in the womb, but we're on the outside and on the outside, we do design things using our intelligence. My point, is we know that both take place in life, so why not accept both as being part of the process'? Isaiah 45 seems relevant and both the random and planned quite plausible and likely even.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The light/dark and good/evil part? I won't disagree with the knowing or understanding life aspects of the bible, but there's still a great deal left unanswered, which is great ... it leaves us room to grow and discover and be wowed over and over and over. Obstacles like intelligent design only or random chain of chemical reactions and process' only limits progress sometimes. There may be a better middle ground open for the possible without clogging our potential to discover something new. We don't, as humans, intelligently design babies in the womb, but we're on the outside and on the outside, we do design things using our intelligence. My point, is we know that both take place in life, so why not accept both as being part of the process'? Isaiah 45 seems relevant and both the random and planned quite plausible and likely even.

For sure there is a lot unanswered, Isaiah 45 is great and also the end of Job where God starts asking Job where were you when I did these things, go ahead and explain! No we don’t design everything, God has designed creation to work like it does, even how a baby is formed in the womb and I’ve found that when we copy God’s design and ask for His wisdom on life and decisions, He gives wisdom, insight and understanding. I get great joy when He does that.

 

[Balthazzar]

For sure there is a lot unanswered, Isaiah 45 is great and also the end of Job where God starts asking Job where were you when I did these things, go ahead and explain! No we don’t design everything, God has designed creation to work like it does, even how a baby is formed in the womb and I’ve found that when we copy God’s design and ask for His wisdom on life and decisions, He gives wisdom, insight and understanding. I get great joy when He does that.

Life can be amazing. Other times it's a major burden, but ... sometimes the ahah moments make the burdens worth it. Other times, I'm kicking and punching at nothing just trying to get through it all. I'm not sure what you mean by copying god's design. I'm a learn as I go'er and borrow from the insight of others kind of guy. Life is interesting, though. Amazing really, but darn difficult too.

 

[Eli G]

... I'm not sure what you mean by copying god's design. ...

Scientists try to copy pre-existing designs in nature (God's designs) in their technological creations.

See some examples on this page: https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/was-life-created/biomimetics-who-designed-it-first/

 

[Balthazzar]

Scientists try to copy pre-existing designs in nature (God's designs) in their technological creations.

See some examples on this page: https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/was-life-created/biomimetics-who-designed-it-first/

Nature is quite possibly our greatest teacher. What else do we have to inspire our creativity? Nothing.

 

[Eli G]

Nature is quite possibly our greatest teacher. What else do we have to inspire our creativity? Nothing.

Well, you are pretending that those designs in what you call "nature" (I call it like that also sometimes but creation most of the time) appeared by themselves.

Nature is more sophisticated than human creations, because the One who created all things is wiser and more powerful than humans.

 

[Balthazzar]

Well, you are pretending that those designs in what you call "nature" (I call it like that also sometimes but creation most of the time) appeared by themselves.

Nature is more sophisticated than human creations, because the One who created all things is wiser and more powerful than humans.

Which is very likely the reasons we borrow from and derive our inspiration for our creativity. Yup, it makes sense to me. The intricacies of human biology in contrast to our most sophisticated machinery type of wiser. I can't disagree.

 

[Balthazzar]

I'm on my third life cycle, so in this light I'm uncertain what's next on the evolutionary journey of me. "God" the wiser, the one who created all things is more powerful than we are, so I'll very likely be better served by not sweating the next step too much. Death is a scary proposition, though. I began a swimmer, became a walker. I wonder if I'll fly next round.

 

[Eli G]

Since I learned about God in my Bible studies, I know what His promise is for human beings and the planet:

Rev. 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

 

[YoursTrue]

Incorrect. We have an idea, but it is a rather limited one. I have gone over that with you because so many creationists get what the first life would have been like terribly wrong since the compare what first life would have been like to existing life.


Which is why I used a qualifier. Remember when you gave your own definition for abiogenesis? I said that by the definition that you gave that you believed in abiogenesis Now you are using a different definition so of course I will give a different answer when you do that.

And another false claim. I have offered to help you to learn countless times. You never took me up on that. When you take a class you do not get to tell the teacher how to teach or what he can teach. And the importance of Miller-Urey experiment has been explained to you countless times too. Why did you even bring it up? Were you not listening? Have you not noticed lately how almost everyone who understands evolution has been chewing you out for how you do not listen and will not learn?

People cannot help you the way that you want them too because your way is incorrect.

So according to the above, abiogenesis is obviously connected to the beginning of -- the process of evolution.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So according to the above, abiogenesis is obviously connected to the beginning of -- the process of evolution.

You still cannot reason properly when evolution is involved. Why is that? Why do you believe that your God could not give life to a cell?

 

[YoursTrue]

Since I learned about God in my Bible studies, I know what His promise is for human beings and the planet:

Rev. 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Ah, yes! When I sang in church and went to other religious organizations, I never heard the above until I studied the Bible as you did. So glad that I did and still do read and continue my Bible studies. (Thank God for that.)

 

[YoursTrue]

You still cannot reason properly when evolution is involved. Why is that? Why do you believe that your God could not give life to a cell?

What I am saying is this: without a beginning, life on earth could not have happened. And, as the theory goes, life on earth could not have evolved without a start of life. (abiogenesis) Scientists say humans came about by means of evolution. A beginning of evolution is necessary in that case. Further, I don't think gorillas wonder about that, although I am thankful no gorilla or chimpanzee has told me about that. Although what is called by scientists apes have. I don't like science fiction too much so not going with the Planet of the Apes much.
It is absolutely and obviously essential to the theory of evolution that life began somehow, somewhere. That is called abiogenesis. Without it, life by the means of evolution as considered by many in the realm of science could not have happened.

 

[Eli G]

What I am saying is this: without a beginning, life on earth could not have happened. And, as the theory goes, life on earth could not have evolved without a start of life. (abiogenesis) Scientists say humans came about by means of evolution. A beginning of evolution is necessary in that case. Further, I don't think gorillas wonder about that, although I am thankful no gorilla or chimpanzee has told me about that. Although what is called by scientists apes have. I don't like science fiction too much so not going with the Planet of the Apes much.
It is absolutely and obviously essential to the theory of evolution that life began somehow, somewhere. That is called abiogenesis. Without it, life by the means of evolution as considered by many in the realm of science could not have happened.

It is evident that the evolutionary chain has to have an initial life or point zero. Evolutionary doctrine sweeps that point zero under the rug. Same as the point at which apes became intelligent...

Those who accept that doctrine are supposed to accept it as it is, unsatisfactory, incomplete and incoherent. It requires faith.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What I am saying is this: without a beginning, life on earth could not have happened. And, as the theory goes, life on earth could not have evolved without a start of life. (abiogenesis) Scientists say humans came about by means of evolution. A beginning of evolution is necessary in that case. Further, I don't think gorillas wonder about that, although I am thankful no gorilla or chimpanzee has told me about that. Although what is called by scientists apes have. I don't like science fiction too much so not going with the Planet of the Apes much.
It is absolutely and obviously essential to the theory of evolution that life began somehow, somewhere. That is called abiogenesis. Without it, life by the means of evolution as considered by many in the realm of science could not have happened.

Are we back to your definition of abiogenesis where even you believe in it? You can't seem to ask proper questions or even to answer them.

 

[YoursTrue]

You still cannot reason properly when evolution is involved. Why is that? Why do you believe that your God could not give life to a cell?

My God can raise the dead, recreate cells, and do whatever He wants. No man or angel can stop him. He can cause wars to cease.
Isaiah 2:4
"Then He will judge between the nations and arbitrate for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will no longer take up the sword against nation, nor train anymore for war."