Is 83 years old too old to be a father?

[Stevicus]

Opinion: Age gap relationships might seem wrong, but they work. Trust me

My partner is 33 years older than me – older parents have something younger ones don’t, writes Emma Flint

www.independent.co.uk

It would seem that the phrase “you’re never too old to ...” comes with an expiration date. Al Pacino is said to be expecting his fourth child with girlfriend Noor Alfallah – he is 83, to her 29. The shockwaves in reaction to the news are palpable: and mostly centre around the couple’s age gap relationship.

We also had the recent news that Robert De Niro has become a father for the seventh time, at the age of 79. Both men are famous, both actors, both presumably well-off – but criticism of their life choices makes me uncomfortable.

Why? Because I am in an “age gap relationship” of my own. My partner is 33 years older than I am: he’s 65, to my 32. And I really couldn’t be happier.

Much of the commentary around Pacino and De Niro lies in how “self-indulgent” and inappropriate later-life parenthood is, and perhaps that’s understandable. People who have lost parents at an early age often talk of how hard it was not to get to see out a “full life” with them. They feel it’s “selfish” to have a child, when you know you might not see that child grow up. I get it.

But while I understand these concerns, I can’t help thinking we are still sticking our noses in other people’s business. And it’s not fair. Isn’t it about time that we gave our censoriousness a rest?

Life isn’t, and shouldn’t, be determined by an outdated societal rule. “Don’t have sex outside of marriage”, “don’t have children when you’re over 30”, “work until you die” – those choices shouldn’t be subject to the moralising of others, they’re for us and us alone. If you want to adhere to these socially imposed set of deadlines, so be it. But equally, those who don’t follow it shouldn’t be condemned.

My view is, to each their own.

What do you think about men becoming fathers at such a late age? It seems women have also been having children at later ages, too. The article mentioned Naomi Campbell having a child at age 50.

Some might argue that it does a disservice to the child, since the older parent will die while their child is still at an early age. On the other hand, with Al Pacino and Robert Deniro, they seem well off enough that they'll probably leave enough money for the kid to go to college and get set up in life - which many younger parents are simply unable to do.

What do you think?

 

[SalixIncendium]

One is too old to be a father when one is too old to produce fertile sperm and/or too old to effectively transfer those sperm to a recipient or lacks the desire or will to transfer them.

 

[Wu Wei]

It all depends on how one defines father

 

[VoidCat]

I say there will need to be a plan in the future for the child for once the parent has passed if it is clear the parent will likely pass while the child is still a child. However I'd say even young parents should have a back up in case they pass while the child is still young as any parent can pass before the child reaches adulthood

 

[SalixIncendium]

One is too old to be a father when one is too old to produce fertile sperm and/or too old to effectively transfer those sperm to a recipient or lacks the desire or will to transfer them.

I regret posting this.

I was thinking "too old to embark on being a father."

I am a father and will be a father until the day either I or my daughter dies. Age has no bearing.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Dosent help a kid if you are not around for very long leaving one fatherless.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Dosent help a kid if you are not around for very long leaving one fatherless.

I turned out okay*.

*Check local listings.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

If you suppose that the only thing your child needs from you is the cash you can leave it, then what does it matter how old you are when you sire another?

But then, I can remember hearing the argument -- over and over and over and over again -- that "a child needs a mother and a father" (this in the context of same-sex marriage).

Do you think Pacino can live long enough to be father to this child when it's 15 (and he's 98)? Then it would appear that he doesn't worry about that question. He'll leave money, that'll take care of the kid's education and so forth. But will that child really have a father?

This is just another entry in my theme that people really do think they believe a lot of stuff, that they don't -- when you look deeply into their hearts -- believe at all.

 

[Valjean]

Considering our species' impact on the planet and each other at our present population, serious consideration should be given to breeding at all.​

​

There's also a cultural component. Not all cultures raise children in nuclear families with a single father and mother as caregivers and providers.​

Kibbutz communal child rearing and collective education - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Quagmire]

Something to consider:
"Simon L. Conti, clinical assistant professor of urology at Stanford, linked paternal aging to an increased risk of babies born with congenital diseases like dwarfism or developing psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder and developmental ones like autism.Mar 25, "

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/well/family/the-risks-to-babies-of-older-fathers.html%23:~:text%3DSimon%2520L.,and%2520developmental%2520ones%2520like%2520autism.&ved=2ahUKEwi0xZOf5KD_AhXfPEQIHTtmChgQFnoECBIQBQ&usg=AOvVaw0lMFyvBOyz-85oka5o6ZGs

 

[Father Heathen]

My concern would be not being in the child's life along enough.

 

[VoidCat]

My concern would be not being in the child's life along enough.

Agreed. However anyone can die at anytime. Im a bit torn on this and feel many factors are to be considered. Like how large the family is. If the older parents have support and many people are in the child's life caring for the kid not just them that would be ideal. With any person bringing a child in the world age is just one thing to be considered. I can't say if someone should or shouldnt based on age alone.

 

[Kfox]

Opinion: Age gap relationships might seem wrong, but they work. Trust me

My partner is 33 years older than me – older parents have something younger ones don’t, writes Emma Flint

www.independent.co.uk

My view is, to each their own.

What do you think about men becoming fathers at such a late age? It seems women have also been having children at later ages, too. The article mentioned Naomi Campbell having a child at age 50.

Some might argue that it does a disservice to the child, since the older parent will die while their child is still at an early age. On the other hand, with Al Pacino and Robert Deniro, they seem well off enough that they'll probably leave enough money for the kid to go to college and get set up in life - which many younger parents are simply unable to do.

What do you think?

When my grandfather was 83 years old, not only was he a father, but a grandfather, and even a great grandfather

 

[Callisto]

I think there are two primary problems. One is the obvious fact that the older someone is, the less likely they'll be around to see the child(ren) grow up. At best, the kids will be left with one biological parent and maybe an inheritance to ensure they're provided for, such as the case here. Though trust funds are nice, they can't provide the relationship and experiences that are missed because the parent died.

Secondly, there are various studies that show that the older the father is, there is increase health risks to the mother and child. For example:

Babies born to older fathers 'tend to have more medical issues
Researchers at Stanford University in California studied health records linked to all live births in the US between 2007 and 2016, amounting to more than 40 million babies. The records showed that children born to men aged 45 and over had a 14% greater risk of premature birth, low birth weight and being admitted to neonatal intensive care compared with babies born to younger fathers.

Infants born to men aged 45 and over also scored lower on the Apgar newborn health test, and were 18% more likely to have seizures compared with infants born to fathers aged 25 to 34 years, according to the study in the British Medical Journal. For women, the risk of gestational diabetes was greater when they had children with older men. - The Guardian.com

Older fathers put health of partners, unborn children at risk
Men who delay fatherhood should consult their doctor and consider banking sperm before age 35
Date: May 13, 2019
Source: Rutgers University

"While it is widely accepted that physiological changes that occur in women after 35 can affect conception, pregnancy and the health of the child, most men do not realize their advanced age can have a similar impact," said study author Gloria Bachmann, director of the Women's Health Institute at Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School...

The study found that men 45 and older can experience decreased fertility and put their partners at risk for increased pregnancy complications such as gestational diabetes, preeclampsia and preterm birth. Infants born to older fathers were found to be at higher risk of premature birth, late still birth, low Apgar scores, low birth weight, higher incidence of newborn seizures and birth defects such as congenital heart disease and cleft palate. As they matured, these children were found to have an increased likelihood of childhood cancers, psychiatric and cognitive disorders, and autism.

Bachmann attributes most of these outcomes to a natural decline in testosterone that occurs with aging, as well as sperm degradation and poorer semen quality, but she said that some correlations need more research. "In addition to advancing paternal age being associated with an increased risk of male infertility, there appears to be other adverse changes that may occur to the sperm with aging. For example, just as people lose muscle strength, flexibility and endurance with age, in men, sperm also tend to lose 'fitness' over the life cycle," she said.

Paternal age is affected by genetic abnormalities, perinatal complications and mental health of the offspring

Abstract: "...Research and analysis of factors that affect male fertility are limited, especially, regarding the age of the father and determining the age at which quality of semen decreases. Age of the father has greater impact than maternal age, on cases of sporadic autosomal dominant congenital diseases such as Apert, Crouzon, Pfeiffer, Noonan and Costello syndromes, multiple endocrine neoplasia (types 2A and 2B) and achondroplasia... Paternal age increases the frequency of congenital diseases such as heart malformations as well as oral, palate and lip cleft. Moreover, mental disorders (autism, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, low IQ level as well as ADHD) also occur more frequently in advanced father's age. Advanced paternal age is defined differently in every research. It depends on disorders in offspring we are talking about. Paternal age has an impact on child's health and development and it is as significant as maternal age, when it comes to reproductive matters."

These studies consider "older fathers" to be in the general vicinity of 45 years old - about half the age of Pacino or DeNiro.

It's one of those things where just because technically you can still do something that doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.

 

[Revoltingest]

What is the point of fathering a
child that one will likely never
raise or get to know.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Opinion: Age gap relationships might seem wrong, but they work. Trust me

My partner is 33 years older than me – older parents have something younger ones don’t, writes Emma Flint

www.independent.co.uk

My view is, to each their own.

What do you think about men becoming fathers at such a late age? It seems women have also been having children at later ages, too. The article mentioned Naomi Campbell having a child at age 50.

Some might argue that it does a disservice to the child, since the older parent will die while their child is still at an early age. On the other hand, with Al Pacino and Robert Deniro, they seem well off enough that they'll probably leave enough money for the kid to go to college and get set up in life - which many younger parents are simply unable to do.

What do you think?

I think it's sick and irresponsible. As was cited above in the thread, the older the man, the higher the likelihood that the child will have health issues. Obviously they will also die at a very early stage in their child's life. After 45-50, you have no business bringing children into this world, imo. Nature and nature's God seems to agree there.

Of course, this is mostly an issue of the wealthy. The old men are reproducing through the use of younger gold diggers who are on the same practical level as an escort, and the old women are reproducing through the use of desperate fertility treatments because they (feel they) squandered their childbearing years. It's all so pathetic. Pretty much none of this would be happening without money changing hands, though.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I think it's sick and irresponsible. As was cited above in the thread, the older the man, the higher the likelihood that the child will have health issues. Obviously they will also die at a very early stage in their child's life. After 45-50, you have no business bringing children into this world, imo. Nature and nature's God seems to agree there.

Of course, this is mostly an issue of the wealthy. The old men are reproducing through the use of younger gold diggers who are on the same practical level as an escort, and the old women are reproducing through the use of desperate fertility treatments because they (feel they) squandered their childbearing years. It's all so pathetic. Pretty much none of this would be happening without money changing hands, though.

Hmm...I'm right on the cusp of that age range you're working from. I was 45 (within 3 weeks of being 46) when my little one was born. 2 and a half years later I'd offer a few thoughts from my own experience.

1) It was unplanned and natural. Whilst my wife and I are what you'd call pro-choice, neither of us are in favour of abortions personally, so we decided quickly to continue with the pregnancy.

2) We were very worried about health risks to both mother and baby, as they are clearly higher. My wife was 43 at the time of the natural birth. All went extremely smoothly, no dramas or health issues. Obviously percentage wise there is increased risk.

3) I have less energy than I did with the first 2 girls (12 and 14). But I go okay, am still fit and active and childish. And our toddler has two teens to play with and get care from rather than being reliant on my wife and I, and splitting attention from my wife and I with a second baby.

4) Financially we are better off, but I don't think it's impactful. We always had enough to cover what was needed.

Ultimately I share some of the concerns raised in this thread, even as an older father. But I would also say that situations and circumstances vary.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

When my grandfather was 83 years old, not only was he a father, but a grandfather, and even a great grandfather

Pacino is a grandfather, with grandkids in their twenties.
So niece/nephews 20+ years older than their aunts/uncles!!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hmm...I'm right on the cusp of that age range you're working from. I was 45 (within 3 weeks of being 46) when my little one was born. 2 and a half years later I'd offer a few thoughts from my own experience.

1) It was unplanned and natural. Whilst my wife and I are what you'd call pro-choice, neither of us are in favour of abortions personally, so we decided quickly to continue with the pregnancy.

2) We were very worried about health risks to both mother and baby, as they are clearly higher. My wife was 43 at the time of the natural birth. All went extremely smoothly, no dramas or health issues. Obviously percentage wise there is increased risk.

3) I have less energy than I did with the first 2 girls (12 and 14). But I go okay, am still fit and active and childish. And our toddler has two teens to play with and get care from rather than being reliant on my wife and I, and splitting attention from my wife and I with a second baby.

4) Financially we are better off, but I don't think it's impactful. We always had enough to cover what was needed.

Ultimately I share some of the concerns raised in this thread, even as an older father. But I would also say that situations and circumstances vary.

Well, obviously I'm not talking about a situation like yours. Your wife and you were just blessed with another child naturally. Can't fault that. That's different from getting knocked up by some rich guy who's old enough to be your grandpa or great-grandpa, or dropping big bucks to get pregnant after menopause. Context definitely does matter.

 

[We Never Know]

Opinion: Age gap relationships might seem wrong, but they work. Trust me

My partner is 33 years older than me – older parents have something younger ones don’t, writes Emma Flint

www.independent.co.uk

My view is, to each their own.

What do you think about men becoming fathers at such a late age? It seems women have also been having children at later ages, too. The article mentioned Naomi Campbell having a child at age 50.

Some might argue that it does a disservice to the child, since the older parent will die while their child is still at an early age. On the other hand, with Al Pacino and Robert Deniro, they seem well off enough that they'll probably leave enough money for the kid to go to college and get set up in life - which many younger parents are simply unable to do.

What do you think?

IMO... Being a dad is taking your kid hiking, fishing, to car shows/drag races, playing ball with them, teaching them skills, taking them on adventures they enjoy, going to their school functions, going to their graduation, etc etc. If you're too old to do that,,, well money can't replace those quality times.