Is a Belief a Claim?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sharing a belief is not claiming a belief.
A belief is not a claim unless a person claims it is true.

Framing something as a belief involves claiming it as true. When you say that you believe something, this implies that you hold it to be true. If you didn't hold it to be true, it wouldn't be your belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because merely declaring your belief is pointless and boring.

I asked: Why not share religious beliefs on a religious forum?
Did you mean to say: Because merely sharing your belief is pointless and boring.

 

[Trailblazer]

Framing something as a belief involves claiming it as true. When you say that you believe something, this implies that you hold it to be true. If you didn't hold it to be true, it wouldn't be your belief.

That will not work. Sharing a belief is not claiming it as true. I hold my belief to be true but I do not claim it is true because I cannot prove it is true.

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course it does.

They aren't necessarily claims that the person has to explain or justify to anyone, but stating a belief implies 1) stating the claim and 2) describing the speaker's position on it.

Stating a belief implies 1) stating the belief and 2) describing the speaker's position on it.
Making a claim involves asserting that the belief is true.

Claim: state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.https://www.google.com/search

 

[Quintessence]

@Valjean - your response is so remarkably weird and saddening to me I truly do not know how to respond to it. You have some very weird perspectives on learning and meaning. It reminds me of a student who said to me they didn't see the point of basic science because it didn't do anything useful. I was shocked and appalled.

 

[Valjean]

I asked: Why not share religious beliefs on a religious forum?
Did you mean to say: Because merely sharing your belief is pointless and boring.

No. Merely stating a belief, with no discussion or explanation, is pointless and boring.
If I declare: "I like green," I don't expect that to be particularly interesting to anyone, without further development.

 

[Valjean]

@Valjean - your response is so remarkably weird and saddening to me I truly do not know how to respond to it. You have some very weird perspectives on learning and meaning. It reminds me of a student who said to me they didn't see the point of basic science because it didn't do anything useful. I was shocked and appalled.

Interesting. Could you explain what perspectives you find weird, and why?
Thanks.

 

[SalixIncendium]

No. Merely stating a belief, with no discussion or explanation, is pointless and boring.
If I declare: "I like green," I don't expect that to be particularly interesting to anyone, without further development.

I would be if "green" had no shades, and there was no reason you liking green more than other colors.

But I could ask you what your favorite shade of green is and why you favor it to other colors. I could ask you what experiences you had that inspired your affinity to green.

But I won't, because your liking green is pointless and boring.

 

[Valjean]

I asked: Why not share religious beliefs on a religious forum?
Did you mean to say: Because merely sharing your belief is pointless and boring.

I'm questioning whether the mere statement of a belief constitutes sharing, in any meaningful way.

 

[Valjean]

I would be if "green" had no shades, and there was no reason you like green more than other colors.

But I could ask you what your favorite shade of green is and why you favor it to other colors. I could ask you what experiences you had that inspired your affinity to green.

But I won't, because your liking green is pointless and boring.

My point exactly. It's the whys and hows that make make a thing interesting., at least interesting enough to post on a discussion board.

 

[Quintessence]

Interesting. Could you explain what perspectives you find weird, and why?
Thanks.

I can try.

@SalixIncendium just posted a rather tongue-in-cheek example as to why.

But to frame it differently, I find it very perplexing to regard information as anything other than intrinsically meaningful and interesting. Maybe it's the incessant curiosity I have about reality and the universe I had as a kid and never grew out of as an adult. All information is educational, without exception. But I will grant many will overlook the inherent educational value of all information if they don't think. Put another way, information must be engaged with but engagement never happens in the first place without said information or life experiences.

 

[SalixIncendium]

My point exactly. It's the whys and hows that make make a thing interesting., at least interesting enough to post on a discussion board.

The problem is that often people don't ask others that express their beliefs why and how. Instead, they challenge their beliefs and automatically put the believer on the defensive. That makes it appear less interesting and more like bullying.

 

[Trailblazer]

No. Merely stating a belief, with no discussion or explanation, is pointless and boring.

I agree.

If I declare: "I like green," I don't expect that to be particularly interesting to anyone, without further development.

I agree, but I am not declaring my religion, I am sharing it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm questioning whether the mere statement of a belief constitutes sharing, in any meaningful way.

No, it doesn't but I don't just share my belief. I elaborate and discuss it if anyone wants to discuss it.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I agree, but I am not declaring my religion, I am sharing it.

Don't make me create a "Is Sharing Declaring?" thread.

 

[Trailblazer]

Don't make me create a "Is Sharing Declaring?" thread.

I won't make you but I'm game.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That will not work. Sharing a belief is not claiming it as true.

Describing it as a belief implies that you consider the claim to be true.

I hold my belief to be true but I do not claim it is true because I cannot prove it is true.

You don't need to prove that something is true for it to be a claim. Describing a claim as your belief tells me that you found it compelling enough to accept as true, whatever your criteria are.

 

[Trailblazer]

Describing it as a belief implies that you consider the claim to be true.

Describing it as a belief implies that I consider the belief to be true.
What you still do not understand is that it is not a claim, it is a belief.

You don't need to prove that something is true for it to be a claim. Describing a claim as your belief tells me that you found it compelling enough to accept as true, whatever your criteria are.

Describing my belief as my belief tells you that I found it compelling enough to accept as true, whatever my criteria were.
Why do you want to make my belief into a claim?

 

[Kfox]

Inspired by something I read in another thread here, where a member stated they're not making a claim, but expressing a belief, and another member, in the ever so civil and polite demeanor of so many of our debaters here, replied, "a claim."

If I tell you that I believe something with no expectation for you to believe that which I do, am I making a claim? Does that belief have to be supported by objective evidence? Does the belief need to be falsifiable?

Why or why not?

The difference between belief and a claim, is evidence for belief is only required to meet your satisfaction, evidence for a claim has to meet the satisfaction of others.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think most atheists somehow got the idea that all beliefs shared on a forum automatically become claims, but a belief is not a claim unless a believer declares the belief to be true.