Is abortion homicide?

[Spiderman]

So, I believe that abortion is homicide because I believe a baby to be human, but I believe that even homicide can be the lesser of two evils. I would rather my mother put me out of my misery than be an unwanted pregnancy.

Having been in multiple jails, psyche-wards, and chemical dependency centers, I know too often what becomes of unwanted pregnancies. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions to the rule, but sociopathic tenancies run higher in people from broken homes, and I would rather be aborted than be the fruit of an unwanted pregnancy or raised in the dysfunctional households without a Father that are typically the ones getting abortions.

The people that are equipped and ready to raise children to be healthy productive members of society are usually not the ones going to the abortion clinic.

Do I think abortion is homicide? Yes
Do I think abortion is evil? Yes
Do I think it should be illegal? No, I consider it sometimes the lesser of two evils, and sometimes the most merciful thing to do both for the child and the mother.

Regarding the Poll question. Here is the definition for homicide:
hom·i·cide
(hŏm′ĭ-sīd′, hō′mĭ-)
n.
1. The killing of one person by another, regardless of intention or legality.
2. A person who kills another person.

 

[Deathbydefault]

I considered your definition and voted yes.
I am still pro-choice and pro-abortion.

There are times when you have legitimate reasons to kill another person, I consider abortion to be among them.

 

[Revoltingest]

A fetus is not a person, so I voted <no>.
Even if a fetus were a person, I'd still vote <no>.

 

[Spiderman]

A fetus is not a person, so I voted <no>.
Even if a fetus were a person, I'd still vote <no>.

Were you once a fetus? I was

 

[Revoltingest]

Were you once a fetus? I was

Yes, before I was hatched.

 

[Stalwart]

To answer your question simply: "Yes, and it should be abolished in all circumstances."

but I believe that even homicide can be the lesser of two evils. I would rather my mother put me out of my misery than be an unwanted pregnancy.

Having been in multiple jails, psyche-wards, and chemical dependency centers, I know too often what becomes of unwanted pregnancies. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions to the rule, but sociopathic tenancies run higher in people from broken homes, and I would rather be aborted than be the fruit of an unwanted pregnancy or raised in the dysfunctional households without a Father that are typically the ones getting abortions.

Sometimes this occurs. Not always, however. No life can be discarded on the basis of them being however likely to lead a 'poor life'. Even then, who are you or I to say that someone's life is (or will be) so poor that it ought not to be lived at all? You or I might think that, but the person in question may not agree. I take it that you also support euthanasia of the old and sick (that is, suffering), regardless of how they feel about it, because you would prefer not to live that sort of life? I also take it that you do not believe in efforts of rehabilitation, because you must necessarily believe that circumstances can never be turned around, and lives cannot be improved.

The people that are equipped and ready to raise children to be healthy productive members of society are usually not the ones going to the abortion clinic.

Poverty is no justification for abortion.

Do I think abortion is homicide? Yes
Do I think abortion is evil? Yes
Do I think it should be illegal? No, I consider it sometimes the lesser of two evils, and sometimes the most merciful thing to do both for the child and the mother.

Abortion is more than mere homocide; it is murder. It is yet more than simply 'murder', though; it is murder of the most innocent and most helpless. The murder of the innocent and helpless is never an act of mercy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, if you're using "homicide" to mean murder. Just like a soldier killing an opponent in war or a police officer killing a criminal or the State putting someone to death isn't considered a homicide, and those are persons, at that. A fetus isn't considered a legal person when it comes to abortion, under the law.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I voted no because I don't think I agree with that definition. Because if it were so, then killing in self-defense, either cop or civilian, Capitol punishment, wartime killing, etc would all be homicide. And while a lay dictionary definition might agree with that, I think that's a bit too broad for what I view as a legal term (ditto for murder). As a legal term, none of those things are homicide.

 

[Spiderman]

According to the online dictionary definition it would be...so according to that definition, any killing of a human in war or the electric chair, is homicide as well. But I guess, the definition of the word is up for debate

 

[Spiderman]

Even then, who are you or I to say that someone's life is (or will be) so poor that it ought not to be lived at all? You or I might think that, but the person in question may not agree. I take it that you also support euthanasia of the old and sick (that is, suffering), regardless of how they feel about it, because you would prefer not to live that sort of life? I also take it that you do not believe in efforts of rehabilitation, because you must necessarily believe that circumstances can never be turned around, and lives cannot be improved.

.

I don't support Euthanasia for the old and sick. However, I think God is quite cruel for leaving them alive and in so much pain for so long. I don't believe there is anything wrong with them being comfortably put out of their misery if they desire so. Just my opinion because I hate to see people in agony.

I believe in efforts of rehabilitation, but it is an exception to the rule. It is extremely rare for a sociopathic dishonest person to get well. It happens, but it is rare. Believe me, I've spent my life with such people.

Regarding abortion, I'm schitzoaffective and a recovering drug-addict. Seeing my contributions to society, it would have been good if my mother had aborted me imho

 

[ADigitalArtist]

According to the online dictionary definition it would be...so according to that definition, any killing of a human in war or the electric chair, is homicide as well. But I guess, the definition of the word is up for debate

I mean I also agree with @Saint Frankenstein that a embryo/fetus doesn't have any sort of legal standing as a person and only a debatable philosophical one so that colors the issue too. But I do think the definition is questionable when only viewed as a lay only definition. Especially since even that seems to be in conflict. The Google online dictionary definition is this one:

hom·i·cide
ˈhäməˌsīd/
noun
NORTH AMERICAN

1. the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.

 

[Spiderman]

I mean I also agree with @Saint Frankenstein that a embryo/fetus doesn't have any sort of legal standing as a person and only a debatable philosophical one so that colors the issue too. But I do think the definition is questionable when only viewed as a lay only definition. Especially since even that seems to be in conflict. The Google online dictionary definition is this one:

hom·i·cide
ˈhäməˌsīd/
noun
NORTH AMERICAN

1. the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.

Fair enough.

This is where I got the OP definition:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/homicide

 

[Stalwart]

I don't support Euthanasia for the old and sick. However, I think God is quite cruel for leaving them alive and in so much pain for so long.

That's your opinion. It is also wrong, because as a man, you cannot possibly have a superior understanding of justice or morality than God.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with them being comfortably put out of their misery if they desire so. Just my opinion because I hate to see people in agony.

Support for human euthanasia is scandal; you are encouraging others to commit mortal sin.

I believe in efforts of rehabilitation, but it is an exception to the rule. It is extremely rare for a sociopathic dishonest person to get well. It happens, but it is rare. Believe me, I've spent my life with such people.

Okay, great. I maintain my point; circumstances pointing to the likelihood of leading a poor life (deemed as such subjectively, by you, rather than the person in question) do not constitute justification for the pre-emptive murder of that person because they are not absolute.

Regarding abortion, I'm schitzoaffective and a recovering drug-addict. Seeing my contributions to society, it would have been good if my mother had aborted me imho

Very sad, but you're allowed an opinion in regards to the value of your own life (in a material sense). You cannot use this as a platform from which to dictate to others whether or not they deserve a shot at life, however. Abortion is never justifiable, and never acceptable.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Abortion is never justifiable, and never acceptable.

Just out of curiosity because there are a lot of different views within this camp, what about abortion where a mother has developing symptoms that could lead to a fatal complication? What about if a fatal complication is assured? What about if a fetus will develope a severe deformity (I'm not talking something manageable like down syndrome or severe forms of autism, but severe encephalopathy or a fatal recessive disorder et all)? What if the woman was raped? What if the rapist was a close relative?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Abortion is never justifiable, and never acceptable.

Oh, it sure as hell is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Brazilian_girl_abortion_case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

 

[Deeje]

hom·i·cide

1. The killing of one person by another, regardless of intention or legality.
2. A person who kills another person.

In that definition, I agree that all killing of any human is against the law.

However by this definition....

hom·i·cide

1. the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.

The word "unlawful" here is key.

We have to separate the "lawful" killing from the "unlawful" taking of life.

We also have to consider whose law we are abiding by.....God's or man's? Sometimes they clash.

If God views the termination of a human life for non-medical reasons as murder (as in most abortion) then his laws would override man's laws and the termination would be viewed by him as murder, regardless of human laws. This also applies to same-sex marriage. God's definition of marriage is the one that counts, if one identifies as a Christian.

Governments are sanctioned by God to carry out the death penalty for the breaking of certain laws. Capital offenses were stipulated in Israel and even accidental manslayers had to have a penalty imposed upon them.

War is another story because there is no sanction for the deaths of innocents. In modern warfare many of the casualties are civilians. This cannot be offered to God as mere collateral damage because every innocent life will be accounted for.

 

[buddhist]

@PopeADope, In early Buddhism, it's about intent - not the "letter of the law" as is often found in the Abrahamic religions.

There's a huge difference when there are good intentions behind an act vs bad intentions.

Also, something else to consider: the female body often self-aborts fetuses when it's not viable.

 

[Stalwart]

what about abortion where a mother has developing symptoms that could lead to a fatal complication? What about if a fatal complication is assured?

Then it ought to be responded to by whatever means necessary in order to preserve the mother's life. If this results in the termination of the pregnancy, then that's a grave pity, but this does not constitute abortion; the intention is to save the mother's life, not to end that of her child. Saint Thomas Aquinas is accredited with formulating this into theory, which is now called "Double Effect": http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/double-effect/

What about if a fetus will develope a severe deformity (I'm not talking something manageable like down syndrome or severe forms of autism, but severe encephalopathy or a fatal recessive disorder et all)?

Then that's tragic, but abortion is still the murder of the innocent and helpless. Mercy-killing is never acceptable.

What if the woman was raped? What if the rapist was a close relative?

One of the parents is a terrible person, and so the child deserves to die? I don't follow, sorry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Brazilian_girl_abortion_case

Terrible circumstances, and let me say here that I advocate for the imposition of the death penalty upon rapists, but I see no justification for murder of the innocent here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

Legalistic deficiencies have no bearing on the morality of the matter of whether or not abortion is permissible in some cases. See my reference to double effect earlier in this post.Halappanavar should have been granted the termination in my opinion. Unfortunately, the technicalities of Ireland's abortion law appear to have gotten in the way.

 

[Aštra’el]

(Merriam-Webster)

Homicide

• : the act of killing another person

• 1: a person who kills another

• 2: a killing of one human being by another
  
  _______________
  
  Yes, abortion is a form of homicide. Yes, abortion is a form of prolicide. No, I have nothing against abortion, and no, abortion (or any act of killing) is not objectively "evil".

 

[Spiderman]

That's your opinion. It is also wrong, because as a man, you cannot possibly have a superior understanding of justice or morality than God.



Support for human euthanasia is scandal; you are encouraging others to commit mortal sin.



Okay, great. I maintain my point; circumstances pointing to the likelihood of leading a poor life (deemed as such subjectively, by you, rather than the person in question) do not constitute justification for the pre-emptive murder of that person because they are not absolute.



Very sad, but you're allowed an opinion in regards to the value of your own life (in a material sense). You cannot use this as a platform from which to dictate to others whether or not they deserve a shot at life, however. Abortion is never justifiable, and never acceptable.

Couldn't abortion save souls? I mean, many of those aborted fetuses would have done a lot of harm to themselves and others. Some of them were very lucky they were aborted.

In fact, I have to go before the judge with enormous amounts of sin on my soul. If my Mother would have aborted me, I'd have a clean slate.

I don't consider this world to be our home anyway, so to die innocent, I count as a great privilege.