Is America a Police state?

[painted wolf]

All valid issues.
No argument.
So move along people....no fur will fly here today.

Awe man... and I just got my fur washed and brushed... I was so ready!

wa:do

 

[Oryonder]

How is belt tightening related to a police state?
To have less of a nanny state is hardly authortarian.

Btw, welcome aboard!

Thx for the welcome.

Belt tightening will lead to civil unrest - IMO it could be much worse than in Greece when austerity was put in place.

I am happy with any moves that reduces Government nannyism and restores individual liberty and freedom. I doubt belt tightening result in a reduction in nannyism.

 

[Revoltingest]

I doubt belt tightening result in a reduction in nannyism.

I can hope.

 

[painted wolf]

I can hope.

Futile hope IMHO... most "nanny" laws are unfunded or actually provide funds.
Seat Belt laws cost nothing extra to enforce and they provide income in the form of tickets and so on.

Individual freedom can never be protected as an economic argument.

wa:do

 

[Revoltingest]

Futile hope IMHO... most "nanny" laws are unfunded or actually provide funds.

Hey...I'm a Libertarian.
We know futile.

 

[Oryonder]

I can hope.

Sure .. we all can but historically it was in times of hardship that the control freaks had their way.

Stalin .. Hitler .. Musollini .. McCarthy.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sure .. we all can but historically it was in times of hardship that the control freaks had their way.
Stalin .. Hitler .. Musollini .. McCarthy.

Hitler certainly used economic doldrums to gain power.
McCarthy certainly didn't.
I don't know about the others.
But again, economic turmoil is merely a risk factor for major change, rather than deterministic.
We should note that Eastern Bloc countries suffered under communism, yet eschewed increased authoritarianism in their revolutions.

 

[Oryonder]

Hitler certainly used economic doldrums to gain power.
McCarthy certainly didn't.
I don't know about the others.
But again, economic turmoil is merely a risk factor for major change, rather than deterministic.
We should note that Eastern Bloc countries suffered under communism, yet eschewed increased authoritarianism in their revolutions.

Times of hardship can be other than "economic". Social and political turmoil can also produce such things.

Obviously with the Bolshlevik revolution was a case of economic hardship.

Lenin argued that the Russian Provisional Government was unrepresentative of the proletariat’s interests because, in his estimation, they represented the “dictatorship of the bourgeoisie

 

[Revoltingest]

It appears to have been an accident, but it raises questions.
Why have cells with....
- No monitoring
- No lavatory facilities
- No water
It suggests that they will let a captive suffer a bit before proceeding to some other step.
Perhaps this was something intentional which got out of hand because they just don't give a damn.
UCSD student's 5-day ordeal in DEA jail sparks outrage, anger - latimes.com

 

[painted wolf]

It appears to have been an accident, but it raises questions.
Why have cells with....
- No monitoring
- No lavatory facilities
- No water
It suggests that they will let a captive suffer a bit before proceeding to some other step.
Perhaps this was something intentional which got out of hand because they just don't give a damn.
UCSD student's 5-day ordeal in DEA jail sparks outrage, anger - latimes.com

Oh my god... that is horrible.
I have to agree, the only reason for such a cell is either gross incompetence or intentional malice.

Often with these situations one initially leads to the other blossoming.

wa:do

 

[Revoltingest]

TSA appears to have institutionalized retaliation against its critics.
» Geraldo Rivera: I Was “Raped” By The TSA Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
This cannot happen without high level manipulation of their software & enforcement of procedures.
So leadership must be involved, & since it is publicly known, I can only presume that Obama is OK with this abuse of power.
It reminds me of Nixon's enemies list & J Edgar Hoover's personal pursuit of public figures.

 

[Storm]

Just when I thought my opinion of Geraldo couldn't sink any lower.... Guys is a world class narcissist.

As for the TSA, the whole issue is overblown. There have been some scandals, but the pat-downs aren't that bad.

 

[painted wolf]

The city surveillance video that shows a group of Fullerton police officers beating a homeless mentally ill man to death last year was finally released today, laying to rest any argument that Kelly Thomas was a threat to officers.

Last year, Ron Thomas, a retired Orange County Sheriff's deputy, said the City of Fullerton offered him $900,000 to just go away, which would have allowed the two cops to remain on the force unpunished for killing his son.
Thomas was pronounced dead on July 10, five days after the beating that left him in a coma.
The cops weren't placed on administrative leave as is customary in a death of a suspect until August 2. And only because the community was outraged.
But it's no doubt city and police officials watched the above video that same night. They even acknowledged allowing the officers to watch the video to complete their incident reports.
I guess we should be relieved they never destroyed the video as cops are so used to doing.
During today's hearing, a crime scene investigator named Dawn Scruggs testifed that Ramos and Cicinelli were out of breath and in disbelief after killing him, apparently trying to sway the court into believing Thomas deserved to die.
But anybody who sees the video can see he did nothing to deserve the beating.
Ramos is being charged with second degree murder and faces up to 15 years in prison. Cicinelli is being charged with involuntary manslaughter and faces up to four years in prison.
It is extremely rare for any cop to receive prison time for their crimes

Don't go to the bottom of the article if you don't want to see what a man who has been beaten to death looks like... it's seriously terrible. Don't watch the video, if you don't want to see how evil humans can be to one another. Both are very sickening.
Shocking Video Of Kelly Thomas Beating Death Released. Watch With Caution. | Pixiq

In another beating... that thankfully didn't lead to a death this time... NYPD was caught beating a young black man for no crime and then lying about it on their police reports. Thankfully the incident was caught on tape and the cops will get a scolding. But at least the DA dropped the charges against the young man and is at least looking at the cops.
More (including video) here:
NYPD Beats Down Black Man, Officers Lie on Reports | Dispatches from the Culture Wars
NY1 Exclusive: Video May Back Claims Bronx Teen's Arrest Was Unfounded - NY1.com

wa:do

 

[Revoltingest]

Just when I thought my opinion of Geraldo couldn't sink any lower.... Guys is a world class narcissist.
As for the TSA, the whole issue is overblown. There have been some scandals, but the pat-downs aren't that bad.

Gerry's narcissism isn't the issue.
Some of us have had different reactions to our "pat downs".
I find it hard to believe that you'd be OK with some government goon fondling your genitals, but I accept what you say.
Personally, I'll never allow it again. I'd skip the groping & the flight.

Don't go to the bottom of the article if you don't want to see what a man who has been beaten to death looks like... it's seriously terrible. Don't watch the video, if you don't want to see how evil humans can be to one another. Both are very sickening.
Shocking Video Of Kelly Thomas Beating Death Released. Watch With Caution. | Pixiq
In another beating... that thankfully didn't lead to a death this time... NYPD was caught beating a young black man for no crime and then lying about it on their police reports. Thankfully the incident was caught on tape and the cops will get a scolding. But at least the DA dropped the charges against the young man and is at least looking at the cops.
More (including video) here:
NYPD Beats Down Black Man, Officers Lie on Reports | Dispatches from the Culture Wars
NY1 Exclusive: Video May Back Claims Bronx Teen's Arrest Was Unfounded - NY1.com

Scary stuff, given that cops receive so little sanction against brutality.
Moreover, we can be prosecuted just for collecting the evidence (ie, videoing it).

 

[Storm]

Gerry's narcissism isn't the issue.
Some of us have had different reactions to our "pat downs".
I find it hard to believe that you'd be OK with some government goon fondling your genitals, but I accept what you say.
Personally, I'll never allow it again. I'd skip the groping & the flight.

I get patted down every time I fly, because my ESA's leash sets off the metal detectors. I've never been "fondled" or "groped." Having actually been the target of sexual abuse and violence, I find attempts to characterize these detached procedings as such deeply offensive.

 

[Revoltingest]

I get patted down every time I fly, because my ESA's leash sets off the metal detectors. I've never been "fondled" or "groped." Having actually been the target of sexual abuse and violence, I find attempts to characterize these detached procedings as such deeply offensive.

That you sail thru their gauntlet without a care, & have endured other personal assaults does not confer greater authority on the matter.
As someone who was sexually assaulted by a TSA goon, I find your disdain for & dismissal of our plight deeply insensitive.
I'm sorry that I offend you, but I post what I believe.
This will not change.

 

[Revoltingest]

Now, if you support the wrong candidate, your name will be made public & your background mined for ammunition.
Obama is not the civil libertarian he would have us believe.
Strassel: Trolling for Dirt on the President's List - WSJ.com

 

[Storm]

That you sail thru their gauntlet without a care, & have endured other personal assaults does not confer greater authority on the matter.
As someone who was sexually assaulted by a TSA goon, I find your disdain for & dismissal of our plight deeply insensitive.
I'm sorry that I offend you, but I post what I believe.
This will not change.

Well, not much else to say except that I envy you your naivete.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, not much else to say except that I envy you your naivete.

Ooooo....I have a snappy come back.
"I do not envy your hubris."
But enuf of this bickering....let's stick to issues & eschew animosity, eh?

 

[Storm]

Ooooo....I have a come back.
I do not envy your hubris.
But enuf of this bickering....let's stick to issues & eschew animosity, eh?

There's a significant difference between hubris and experience you wish you didn't have.

About as much as a detached, professional patdown and a sexual assault.