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Is anyone here actually a "good person"?

Otherright

Otherright
Some people have risked their life literally before they could realize they were doing it.

Maybe you wouldn´t, maybe I wouldn´t. But we can´t speak for humanity.

Blessings :)

Look, I've stopped at plenty of accidents and helped injured folks out of many situations. But the mind is always working. Picking the safest path. If it means I die to save a total stranger, it probably won't happen. I will get to the point that I can offer them the most help I can without dying myself, maybe even accepting injury to help, but I'm not giving my life for someone I don't know.

My kids, my wife, my best friends? Sure. Why? They are better than me and can probably offer the world something greater than I. My life is worth theirs.
 

Otherright

Otherright
The reality of morality really doesn't even require such a harsh example for us to see that it is based on convenience.

You have 200.00. You plan on going out for a good time this weekend. Your friend calls. Their lights are going to be disconnected if they don't pay. They have a kid. The bill is 200.00. Do you pay it?

Of course you do. I would anyway.

Now. Same situation, but your lights are getting turned off. Who's bill do you pay? Yours or your friends? You bet your ***.

Why? Its inconvenient for you to go without. You can make yourself feel good by staying in and helping a friend. But you suffering for your friend is another matter.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
The reality of morality really doesn't even require such a harsh example for us to see that it is based on convenience.

You have 200.00. You plan on going out for a good time this weekend. Your friend calls. Their lights are going to be disconnected if they don't pay. They have a kid. The bill is 200.00. Do you pay it?

Of course you do. I would anyway.

Now. Same situation, but your lights are getting turned off. Who's bill do you pay? Yours or your friends? You bet your ***.

Why? Its inconvenient for you to go without. You can make yourself feel good by staying in and helping a friend. But you suffering for your friend is another matter.

1-It does depend on the person (even when the vast majority wouldn´t pay their friends)

2-The greater good is also important for consideration. Your friend has responsabilities, and it is important he tries to fullfill them.

To save someone in the same situation than you would probably mean that you have a greater understanding that that person in such area, that you are able to be less attached to your own problem and are concious that your friend is not able to be so unatached.

Paying your friend´s bill is a temporal solution, you won´t pay it every time because for starters, your friend also needs to grow up in the path of enlightment, if you always pay his bills he will never be able to become de-atacched himself. He could grow dependant on you or lazy(not necesarily of course, we are alking to hypothethical persons and after all, real persons are each an universe) and that would be a greater damage that the simple not having light.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
There's no doubt that what he asks of us can be very insulting to a person's pride. He asks us to humble ourselves before him, to make ourselves nothing and lift him up as everything.
Attention seeking to fulfill his own ego. Again..."here are these rules you must obey even though I know you can't because I made you, but if you worship me I might let you slide on the rules, otherwise I'm punishing you"
If someone doesn't want to believe God is good then I don't see how they could ever worship him.
Not a matter of wanting to believe he is good. It's a matter of simply can't believe he is good given the scripture associated with him.
Also, the biggest part of worshiping God is submitting to his commands so it's not some free pass he gives to his servants to sin.
"Yes yes, bow and grovel and cater to my whim and I won't punish you for things I already know you're going to do because I made you knowing you would do them."
The story Christians believe is that God made everything good in the beginning, meaning without sin,pain, and suffering and also without a fractured relationship between us and him. It was when Adam didn't believe God about the forbidden fruit that we believe the world in it's current state came to be, including our imperfections. We also believe God is in the process of returning the world to it's perfect state through JC. That's the best I can do to try to answer your qualms about being created imperfectly and then judged for those imperfections.
What don't you understand about omniscience? Do you believe your god knows all? Is he omnipotent? Omniscient? Omnipresent? Look, try to understand this, it doesn't matter how the world supposedly started. It doesn't matter what Adam or Eve did. If you believe that god created the world and Adam and Eve AND god is omniscient, then he KNEW what his own creation would do before they even did. Which means he knew, before he created Adam, before he sent his rules, before any of it, that his creation would "sin", that we would fall short of the rules. Therefore, the only purpose to set unreachable requirements on his creation which he knows cannot meet them, is to elicit worship. And, being one that only seems to want that worship, decides to punish those that don't worship him. This is a fear tactic. Not a love tactic. This would be akin to me telling my 5y/o that he is to do 50 push-ups in proper military style (knowing full-well he can't) and telling him if he doesn't I will punish him by putting him in his time out spot for the whole day UNLESS he gets on his knees and tells me how much he loves me and how great I am and how beautiful I am and so on and so forth.
 

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
I've never found the Christian concept of everyone being a sinner to be a particularly healthy mindset. Self-deprecation isn't humility, but you can consider yourself and everyone around you a bad person if you want to.

But it's a necessary belief for conservative Christian theology. If we aren't sinners, then we have no need of salvation.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Not a matter of wanting to believe he is good. It's a matter of simply can't believe he is good given the scripture associated with him.
.

I'd be very surprised if you've actually read the Bible aside from a few passages here and there that are taken out of context. Read the NT and then tell me how much of an SOB you think God is.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
I'd be very surprised if you've actually read the Bible aside from a few passages here and there that are taken out of context. Read the NT and then tell me how much of an SOB you think God is.

If OT and NT God is supposed to be the same, at the very least he change his mind. like REALLY changed his mind.

Anyone coming up with eternal tormenting for his childrens is just a bad parent IMO
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
If OT and NT God is supposed to be the same, at the very least he change his mind. like REALLY changed his mind.

Anyone coming up with eternal tormenting for his childrens is just a bad parent IMO

Actually the OT gives an incomplete picture of God, not an incorrect or schizophrenic one. It is through the person of Jesus that we believe God reveals himself in his entirety.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Actually the OT gives an incomplete picture of God, not an incorrect or schizophrenic one. It is through the person of Jesus that we believe God reveals himself in his entirety.

It is not the lacking that I have troubles with, its the actual "having" that I have troubles with.

Like how this god is "god of the armies" and has laws that permit slavery and makes people be bad on purpose (like when he did so to the pharaoh) and when he gets into a wrestling match with one of his favorite saints (who BTW beated him in said wrestling match) that is the same saint that liked to steal blessings from his father and used his wife as a prostitute.

Well, so many horrible things.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
It is not the lacking that I have troubles with, its the actual "having" that I have troubles with.

Like how this god is "god of the armies" and has laws that permit slavery and makes people be bad on purpose (like when he did so to the pharaoh) and when he gets into a wrestling match with one of his favorite saints (who BTW beated him in said wrestling match) that is the same saint that liked to steal blessings from his father and used his wife as a prostitute.

Well, so many horrible things.

Don't forget about the part where god sent bears to maul children to death. It is interesting to note that there is one thing that brings the creator of the cosmos down to his knees; iron chariots (Judges 1:19).
 
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Me Myself

Back to my username
2 Kings 2:24

Wait, they totally diserved it.

I don´t know how I doubted OT God.

Those 42 children were viciously saying "go baldy!" to a saint. It is their good fortune that he only cursed them to be disimboweled by two bears.

They should thank that he didn´t use demons.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Wait, they totally diserved it.

I don´t know how I doubted OT God.

Those 42 children were viciously saying "go baldy!" to a saint. It is their good fortune that he only cursed them to be disimboweled by two bears.

They should thank that he didn´t use demons.

Heh, I would seriously question the mental state of anyone who would try to suggest that a brutal death is a proportionate punishment for name calling by children, those little meanies.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
I'd be very surprised if you've actually read the Bible aside from a few passages here and there that are taken out of context. Read the NT and then tell me how much of an SOB you think God is.

Here you go again, picking one statement out of many to respond to and ignoring the descriptive points I keep bringing up waiting for you to address.

You can be surprised all you want. You can doubt what I've read all you want. However, at least I take it as a whole. Now you can say what you want about the OT, but your claims are just your claims with nothing to back them up. Taken as a whole, your god IS sadistic and cruel. Taken as a whole your god is twisted. And yes, that includes the NT as well.
 

Otherright

Otherright
Actually the OT gives an incomplete picture of God, not an incorrect or schizophrenic one. It is through the person of Jesus that we believe God reveals himself in his entirety.

If that is the case, why not Muhammad then? Isn't that an even more clear representation, as it is newer and updated; God version 3.0?
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Here you go again, picking one statement out of many to respond to and ignoring the descriptive points I keep bringing up waiting for you to address.

You can be surprised all you want. You can doubt what I've read all you want. However, at least I take it as a whole. Now you can say what you want about the OT, but your claims are just your claims with nothing to back them up. Taken as a whole, your god IS sadistic and cruel. Taken as a whole your god is twisted. And yes, that includes the NT as well.

Exactly what do you feel I haven't addressed?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Exactly what do you feel I haven't addressed?

Well, read what you´ve been missing :p

Actually the OT gives an incomplete picture of God, not an incorrect or schizophrenic one. It is through the person of Jesus that we believe God reveals himself in his entirety.

It is not the lacking that I have troubles with, its the actual "having" that I have troubles with.

Like how this god is "god of the armies" and has laws that permit slavery and makes people be bad on purpose (like when he did so to the pharaoh) and when he gets into a wrestling match with one of his favorite saints (who BTW beated him in said wrestling match) that is the same saint that liked to steal blessings from his father and used his wife as a prostitute.

Well, so many horrible things.

Don't forget about the part where god sent bears to maul children to death. It is interesting to note that there is one thing that brings the creator of the cosmos down to his knees; iron chariots (Judges 1:19).

2 Kings 2:24

Wait, they totally diserved it.

I don´t know how I doubted OT God.

Those 42 children were viciously saying "go baldy!" to a saint. It is their good fortune that he only cursed them to be disimboweled by two bears.

They should thank that he didn´t use demons.

Heh, I would seriously question the mental state of anyone who would try to suggest that a brutal death is a proportionate punishment for name calling by children, those little meanies.
 
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