Is atheism a belief?

[oldbadger]

...
......................................................... I just haven't made up my mind what to believe due to lack of evidence either way.

Fair enough.
But 'who knows?'.... that could change, and you might believe one way or t'other after all?
But of course, then you would be a 'believer'.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

OK.
But the above is a double negative, and so I can remove both, which leads me to think that you 'believe there is a God'.

That's not how a double negative works, because "belief that there is no God" is a specific thing, and to say I don't have that is not to negate it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What if 2 of them were Bohr and Schroedinger? (they were philosophers as well as physicists after all)

They wouldn't accomplish anything either without being able to test their ideas against physical reality in empirical ways.

Theoretical physicists work with pen and paper, sure.
But they start with an empirical set of data that they attempt to explain.

And when they come up with something they think is valueable, experimental physicists will then test those ideas.

A theoretical physicist can't even begin without first having an empirical dataset that requires an explanation.

Philosophy is not simply 'drawing conclusions from mere words' though.

Hence natural philosophy, which gave birth to modern science, and modern science can't be isolated from its philosophical roots and underpinnings (as recognised by the aforementioned Bohr, Schroedinger as well as Einstein, etc).

The philosophy of science, is not to be confused with actual workd being done within scientific fields.
The philosophy of science is about recognising the value of empiricism.

You can't investigate things empirically while locked up in a room with as only tools pen and paper..

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Is atheism a belief?

The Atheists have no trust in Atheism. Do they?
If yes, then they should give one positive argument/reason that "God does not exist".

The Atheists have no belief in Atheism. Do they?
If yes, then they should give one positive argument/reason that "God does not exist".

The Atheists have no faith in Atheism.Do they?

If yes, then they should give one positive argument/reason that "God does not exist".
Right, please?

Regards

Atheism is not the claim that there is no god.
It is only disbelief of the claim that there is a god.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Very beautiful
Now I want to continue because I am weak and this is your chance to get win
I am weak physically and mentally no problem
But I will prove to you aim not mentally weak

Please note that I didn't claim you were weak physically or mentally. I claimed you were being foolish. Even the most genius of us can behave or think foolishly - note, this is not be claiming to be a "genius". I have thought and acted foolishly myself on many occasions.

Describes my personality through my artificial responses as a fact and accuses me of being aggressive and this indicates that you are pedantic

Pedantic would imply that I am overly concerned with trivialities of formal learning/knowledge - when all I did was use my intuition and report to you that I believe I am seeing through your veneer of religious righteousness. You are no different than I am... willing to insult, willing to degrade others - except you do yours under the guise of "just presenting the facts." I do mine in plain sight. Do you see the difference? I believe this difference can best be expressed as a measure of fortitude/courage/honesty. I am forthright with my denigrations... you are not, and prefer to instead use indirect slurs against the characters of whole groups of people. Whether this is good/better or not is up to you to decide. Do you prefer yourself and others to be forthright in their thinking? Or do you prefer it when people hide their true intentions?

You told me that DNA is proof that you belong to your father and mother
I don't believe DNA and I deny it
I want to another prove

I want you to bring me a video of the moments of your mother's marriage and everything until you came out as proof and your features appeared until yesterday

As an independent organization, I refuse to adopt DNA for birth control and I want to see only visual and audio evidence
I want you to bring me proof that you belong to your father and mother without DNA

The Technically advanced of our research confirms the possibility of changing DNA and tampering and the certificate of proof of DNA has become weak and not recognized.

Is it possible to bring me a video
The video is also fake because it has been tampered with in high quality Hollywood studios and I don't believe in it

I do not believe the testimony of relatives because their testimony is false

I do not want to believe that you are the son of your father and your mother never, whatever you try

You are not the son of your father and your mother

You bast-a-rd (example) came from a bag in the garbage and One man took your as father after he returned from his jop

What I want you to realize is that the reality of whether I am the product of my parents or not is an EXTREMELY trivial and inconsequential piece of information. It means almost nothing. And so, whether I can prove this bit of information or not, whether I meet the burdens you put on me to provide proof or not DOESN'T MATTER IN THE SLIGHTEST. No one's outlook on life changes (except maybe mine) as a result of being able to prove my parents really are my parents. And if it actually turned out they weren't my parents? Again... not much change there either. It is a very, very trivial piece of information, and therefore I don't care whether or not I can prove it to you. I don't even care whether or not I can prove it to myself!

The claim that a god exists, however - now that DOES come with a lot of paradigm-shifting power, doesn't it? How many lives would change if someone were able to prove their God exists? How important would that piece of information be? Vastly more important than whether or not I came from my parents, correct? And therefore it MATTERS that you cannot produce compelling evidence for your God. If you could, and I had to come to the realization that Allah was pulling the strings of the universe, well that would change quite a bit for me, wouldn't it? It would probably even change quite a bit for you - as much as you wouldn't want to admit that. And since this is such an important area of discussion, THAT is the reason I expect evidence before I will believe. You seem to care whether or not others believe there is a God - so it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to convince people, if this is what you wish to do. But as I stated, I DO NOT CARE whether others believe I am the product of my parents or not. I simply DO NOT CARE - so I feel absolutely no responsibility to convince you.

So they are atheists
They reject the evidence in biological and vital signs of the complexity of the creator and the dynamic motion of the planets

And they believe DNA as proof of parents

How contradictory

I don't see what is contradictory here. The DNA-to-parent linkage is something we humans have established as a reliable form of evidence to establish ancestral descent. Can you point to a similar relationship THAT CAN BE EXAMINED as evidence to establish that God has a hand in biological complexity or the dynamic motion of the planets? Can you? We both know that you cannot.

As for the spiritual

I hope I get an explanation of my question of the belief of an agnostic or atheism

Why we speak low when we are scared
i mean in places of fear why we speak quietly ?
There is our faith that there are hidden creatures but we do not see them and there is no ability to prove them

This shows man the contradiction in understanding the facts
Is he afraid of nothing? While there is thought to be something?

i'm waiting the answer

There is actually a very simple, natural explanation for this if you accept the plausibility of instinct and natural selection of organisms for survival. In our earliest years as a developing/evolving species, those among us who reacted to noises in the darkness/woods by getting low and quiet survived the best. And so, this behavior was ingrained in us, and passed on through the generations of our development. And this can easily be seen in the behavior of a great many other species of animal as well, all throughout the animal kingdom. Not to mention the fact that it only makes sense, and considering our ability to reason and puzzle over abstract concepts, is it any wonder any of us would get quiet when we felt that danger might be present? If we have experience with seeing and hearing, and understand that these senses are integral in catching our prey or foraging for food, then how difficult is it to reason-out that other animals also use these senses, and so if you don't want other animals seeing or hearing you, then you duck out of view and remain quiet. We have studied animals, and know that "instinct" is a real and compelling force in our nature. Bodies can be birthed with innate knowledge and reactions to stimuli. This is a fact. And so, if you find yourself doing something involuntarily (like pulling your hand away from a hot stove, or getting quiet when your surroundings are unknown) then chances are very good that it is your instinct driving you.

atheism: example
There is no creator but see factory marks

You can keep calling things that occur in nature "factory marks" but no matter how many times you say it, it doesn't make it any more true or accurate as a description of our world. Try finding some real evidence that fixes that problem. Right now, you have none, and it is so very obvious in the way you just keep making statements and using words to try and convince.

 

[oldbadger]

That's not how a double negative works, because "belief that there is no God" is a specific thing, and to say I don't have that is not to negate it.

Ok.
So how about you telling me how you 'know' there is no God?
Can we try that, please ..?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Ok.
So how about you telling me how you 'know' there is no God?
Can we try that, please ..?

I've never claimed to know that there is no God. In fact, I've clearly stated that I don't believe there is no God, so how could I know that there isn't?

 

[oldbadger]

I've never claimed to know that there is no God. In fact, I've clearly stated that I don't believe there is no God, so how could I know that there isn't?

Oh....... That's a form of belief, then.

If you don't know, then all you have is opinion, or belief.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Oh....... That's a form of belief, then.

What is?

If you don't know, then all you have is opinion, or belief.

Or, in this case, a lack of belief.

 

[j1i]

Please note that I didn't claim you were weak physically or mentally. I claimed you were being foolish. Even the most genius of us can behave or think foolishly - note, this is not be claiming to be a "genius". I have thought and acted foolishly myself on many occasions.

Pedantic would imply that I am overly concerned with trivialities of formal learning/knowledge - when all I did was use my intuition and report to you that I believe I am seeing through your veneer of religious righteousness. You are no different than I am... willing to insult, willing to degrade others - except you do yours under the guise of "just presenting the facts." I do mine in plain sight. Do you see the difference? I believe this difference can best be expressed as a measure of fortitude/courage/honesty. I am forthright with my denigrations... you are not, and prefer to instead use indirect slurs against the characters of whole groups of people. Whether this is good/better or not is up to you to decide. Do you prefer yourself and others to be forthright in their thinking? Or do you prefer it when people hide their true intentions?

What I want you to realize is that the reality of whether I am the product of my parents or not is an EXTREMELY trivial and inconsequential piece of information. It means almost nothing. And so, whether I can prove this bit of information or not, whether I meet the burdens you put on me to provide proof or not DOESN'T MATTER IN THE SLIGHTEST. No one's outlook on life changes (except maybe mine) as a result of being able to prove my parents really are my parents. And if it actually turned out they weren't my parents? Again... not much change there either. It is a very, very trivial piece of information, and therefore I don't care whether or not I can prove it to you. I don't even care whether or not I can prove it to myself!

The claim that a god exists, however - now that DOES come with a lot of paradigm-shifting power, doesn't it? How many lives would change if someone were able to prove their God exists? How important would that piece of information be? Vastly more important than whether or not I came from my parents, correct? And therefore it MATTERS that you cannot produce compelling evidence for your God. If you could, and I had to come to the realization that Allah was pulling the strings of the universe, well that would change quite a bit for me, wouldn't it? It would probably even change quite a bit for you - as much as you wouldn't want to admit that. And since this is such an important area of discussion, THAT is the reason I expect evidence before I will believe. You seem to care whether or not others believe there is a God - so it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to convince people, if this is what you wish to do. But as I stated, I DO NOT CARE whether others believe I am the product of my parents or not. I simply DO NOT CARE - so I feel absolutely no responsibility to convince you.

I don't see what is contradictory here. The DNA-to-parent linkage is something we humans have established as a reliable form of evidence to establish ancestral descent. Can you point to a similar relationship THAT CAN BE EXAMINED as evidence to establish that God has a hand in biological complexity or the dynamic motion of the planets? Can you? We both know that you cannot.

There is actually a very simple, natural explanation for this if you accept the plausibility of instinct and natural selection of organisms for survival. In our earliest years as a developing/evolving species, those among us who reacted to noises in the darkness/woods by getting low and quiet survived the best. And so, this behavior was ingrained in us, and passed on through the generations of our development. And this can easily be seen in the behavior of a great many other species of animal as well, all throughout the animal kingdom. Not to mention the fact that it only makes sense, and considering our ability to reason and puzzle over abstract concepts, is it any wonder any of us would get quiet when we felt that danger might be present? If we have experience with seeing and hearing, and understand that these senses are integral in catching our prey or foraging for food, then how difficult is it to reason-out that other animals also use these senses, and so if you don't want other animals seeing or hearing you, then you duck out of view and remain quiet. We have studied animals, and know that "instinct" is a real and compelling force in our nature. Bodies can be birthed with innate knowledge and reactions to stimuli. This is a fact. And so, if you find yourself doing something involuntarily (like pulling your hand away from a hot stove, or getting quiet when your surroundings are unknown) then chances are very good that it is your instinct driving you.

You can keep calling things that occur in nature "factory marks" but no matter how many times you say it, it doesn't make it any more true or accurate as a description of our world. Try finding some real evidence that fixes that problem. Right now, you have none, and it is so very obvious in the way you just keep making statements and using words to try and convince.

Have you noticed that half of the responses are trying to express my personality
Who asked you to diagnose my condition? Haha
I forced you to diagnose my condition in all responses

What is your reference through which I ruled that I am wrong in my religion or belief
on what basis ?

Example
If I am on the street, the law of reference is with the traffic police

Where did you get the terms of reference through which laws enact my mistakes?

Do not tell me humanity, your words are inhuman and what is humanity?
Light up my way until you find out what went wrong with you
Is there a specific book, constitution or law?

Will you say humanity that everyone agreed?
Suppose the people are bad and they are criminals and they agree that killing is a natural tool
Does killing mean something human?

So how do you judge that a religion or anything is a mistake by a lost standard

Do not say collective agreement, this is a fallacy

Will you tell me the mind?

Anything your mind accepts will be true and anything that your mind does not accept means wrong
Do you want to say that your mind is the center of the universe? Or is it your opinion?

A man entered with a pistol and said, "I am mentally thought and found that killing people is good. Are you going to say that your mind is right because he ruled his mind even if he reached a negative and criminal

See how human thinking reaches the wrong conclusion

Mind and humanity? What is her officer?
There was an atheist who believed that the disabled should be executed unproductive in society so as not to take and consume food and leave the strong and he believes that he speaks from a human perspective (Thomas Malthus) such as birth control and get rid of unproductive human beings and speaks from a humanistic mental philosophical ??

Select me now? You are making mistakes on what basis I am wrong

What are you based on?
If you say the mind you must respect the mindset of the criminal because he is a murderer

Is your reference philosophy ?
In philosophy many approaches
Did you know that Hitler relied in his criminality on the philosophy of the famous philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche this nihilist philosopher

I'll put you in impasse
On what i got like on mental or humane
Only feelings may be right and may be wrong

Stop diagnosing my personality, and just answer what your reference is to build upon


Thank you, for reading all

 

[ecco]

Idk if its a belief, but I have always wondered if atheist were willing to know God.

What a ridiculous comment. Who wouldn't want to believe in an entity that promises eternal bliss in heaven with or without 72 virgins and young boys to meet our needs and the possibility of coming back to earth for a few more tries at ...whatever?

I think I just referred to three different Gods. My bad. If I just get to pick one, well...which one would you recommend?





ETA: If Santa was real, I could save a lot of money each year by not having to buy Xmas presents.

ETA: If the Easter Bunny was real, I could save a lot of time and money by not having to buy eggs and hard boiling them (I do love deviled eggs).

ETA: On the other hand, I'd feel obligated to put money into a basket every Sunday or pledge a fixed percentage of my salary. Oh, well. I guess that's a small price for even 2 virgins.

 

[ecco]

I posted the article because I thought it had some interesting points, applicable to all people, atheists or theists.

You posted a pop-sci opinion piece dressed up as a research article. If I could find this out by reading it, why didn't you?

I didn't necessarily post the article for you or anyone to automatically accept the author's conclusions. Nor did I realize that the link included needed a subscription. I was not using "tactics" or assuming you or anyone would just read it without thinking about it, checking it out and arriving at your own thoughts on the subject.

You posted a pop-sci opinion piece dressed up as a research article. If I could find this out by reading it, why didn't you?

No, I don't think Lois should be accepted as unbiased, then again I don't think an atheists or anyone's opinion is unbiased.

Yeah. But you could post links to legitimate research if you wanted to. But you don't.

 

[ecco]

Hello Ecco!
Do you still believe that I am a JW?

I do love your beliefs.

Did I state you were a JW? Maybe I did, but I sure don't remember doing it since I see nothing in your profile that indicates you are a JW.

Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

Or perhaps you did post something that led me to believe that you are a JW.

As you stated to another:

So please show us what you do believe, because you sure ain't certain.

 

[ecco]

they should give one positive argument/reason that "God does not exist".

Which God? Jesus, Shiva, Atlas, Allah, Obundu, et al?

 

[ecco]

I don't believe there is a God and I don't believe there is no God. I just haven't made up my mind what to believe due to lack of evidence either way.

Consider the overwhelming evidence that all gods are the creations of man's imaginings.
Middle Easterners believe in Middle Eastern gods.
Asians believe in Asian gods.
Africans believe in African gods (well, they did until whitey came along and converted them to believe in Jesus)
Native Americans believed in Native American gods (well, they did until whitey came along wiped them out with his diseases).

ETA: You do not have the same qualms about the Easter Bunny, do you? What's the difference?

 

[ecco]

You are not God and you are not me so you have no idea what my intentions were. Telling other people what their intentions are is disrespectful.

Nonsense. One does not have to be a god to spot deceptive intentions. That's a very human quality. It helped us survive to propagate.

I will not respond to you again unless you can be respectful. That is my new rule. Another new rule I have is that I am not going to argue with people anymore. Another new rule I have is that if people keep contradicting me I will ignore them.

OK. However, that will not prevent me from commenting on your posts as I see fit.

Another new rule I have is that I am not going back over old posts to prove what I said or what someone else said. What an utter waste of time.

It is not a waste of time if the purpose is to verify whether you or another person is being truthful. But, if you suspect that it is you who is being untruthful, as in accusing me of using the term "rabid theists", then indeed you don't want to "waste time" verifying your own lies and arrogance.

I am on this forum for respectful discussions, that's all.

Respectful discussion should be based on honesty and integrity. That includes verifying information before you make untruthful accusations and, at the very least, admitting your failure and posting a retraction when clearly shown you were wrong.

 

[ecco]

Atheism is not the claim that there is no god.

I am the exception.

I claim there is no god. I claim there are no gods. I claim that all "gods" are the creations of man's imaginings. I also claim the Easter Bunny is the creation of man's imaginings. I also claim that Santa Clause is the creation of man's imaginings. I also claim that Mickey Mouse is the creation of man's imaginings. I also claim Psychic Snowflakes are the creation of man's (mine) imaginings.

I see no difference between any of them.

 

[Audie]

Fair enough.
But 'who knows?'.... that could change, and you might believe one way or t'other after all?
But of course, then you would be a 'believer'.

Could be, tho a True believer is one who just believes
things.
A person who has some sort of sensible reason
for believing something is just another guy. Or girl.

 

[Audie]

You posted a pop-sci opinion piece dressed up as a research article. If I could find this out by reading it, why didn't you?




You posted a pop-sci opinion piece dressed up as a research article. If I could find this out by reading it, why didn't you?




Yeah. But you could post links to legitimate research if you wanted to. But you don't.

Due diligence is one of them anathemas to a creo.
Like holy water on a vampire.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I am the exception.

I claim there is no god. I claim there are no gods. I claim that all "gods" are the creations of man's imaginings. I also claim the Easter Bunny is the creation of man's imaginings. I also claim that Santa Clause is the creation of man's imaginings. I also claim that Mickey Mouse is the creation of man's imaginings. I also claim Psychic Snowflakes are the creation of man's (mine) imaginings.

I see no difference between any of them.

You are a subset of atheism, called a "strong atheist".

And what you have in common with "weak atheists", is that the both of you answer "no" to the question "do you believe gods exist?", which is something that is universally the case for any and all atheists.