Trailblazer
Veteran Member
@ ecco
Trailblazer (in black)
ecco (in red)
ecco said: In other words - again - Baha’u’llah says he is God's messenger. How do we know Baha’u’llah is God's messenger? We know because Baha’u’llah says he is God's messenger.
Trailblazer said: No, that is not how we know. We know because of the evidence that indicates that He is a Messenger of God.The evidence that indicates that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger from God is as follows:
We know what He was like as a person because it is in the recorded history of the Baha’i Faith. People have written about Baha’u’llah, people who knew Him personally, or knew others who knew Him personally, so that is what we read. Everyone who knew Him was not even a Baha’i, but nevertheless, many knew He was more than an ordinary man.
This article is an overview of Baha’u’llah’s early life and it reflects on his character. Early Life of Bahá'u'lláh. I am sure that a lot more has been written. This is just one article I ran across.
His character is also addressed in the four volume set entitled “The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh” which covers the 40 years of His Mission, after He realized he was the chosen one in 1853.
Volume 1: Baghdad 1853-63
Volume 2: Adrianople 1863-68
Volume 3: Akka, The Early Years 1868-77
Volume 4: Mazra'ih&Bahjí 1877-92
SECOND PERIOD: THE MINISTRY OF BAHÁ’U’LLÁH 1853–1892
Chapter VI: The Birth of The Bahá’í Revelation
Chapter VII: Bahá’u’lláh’s Banishment to ‘Iráq
Chapter VIII: Bahá’u’lláh’s Banishment to ‘Iráq (Continued)
Chapter IX: The Declaration of Bahá’u’lláh’s Mission and His Journey to Constantinople
Chapter X: The Rebellion of Mírzá Yahyá and the Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh’s Mission in Adrianople
Chapter XI: Bahá’u’lláh’s Incarceration in ‘Akká
Chapter XII: Bahá’u’lláh’s Incarceration in ‘Akká (Continued)
Chapter XIII: Ascension of Bahá’u’lláh
I also have many of the prophecies posted on my forum, since I had an ongoing dialogue with a Christian a few years back.They are probably in the Christian Subjects folder. Delphi Forums Login
Below is one prophecy that is so specific that it could not have been fulfilled by anyone else.
And since He fulfilled it exactly as written (as well as fulfilling all the other prophecies in the OT) there is no reason to keep waiting for Jesus to return, or to wait for the Messiah other religions are waiting for. All you have to do is read the history to know that Baha’u’llah fulfilled this prophecy. What do you think, that another Messiah claimant is going to come along later and fulfill it exactly as Baha’u’llah did? Gimmie a break.
Persia was part of Assyria and to the East of the Holy Land. Baha'u'llah was persecuted and banished from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain, which fulfilled this prophecy. There is no way He could have had any control over fulfilling it in order to fool people, since He was a prisoner or an exile for 40 years. There are many other prophecies like it, things that happened during His mission and afterward that He had absolutely no control over. Geography cannot be faked, it just exists, and a lot of the OT prophecies refer to geography. Only a blind person could fail to see that Baha’u’llah was who He claimed to be, by the fulfillment of these prophecies alone.
Baha’u’llah said what we are to use as evidence of His claim: (1) His Person (character), (2) His Revelation (what He accomplished on His mission, and (3) His words (the Tablets that He wrote). I added the predictions as part of the evidence because they *indicate* that He had supernatural powers and I know people consider that important. Notably, Baha’u’llah did not consider that important, or proof of who He was; otherwise, He would have said it was proof. In fact, Baha’u’llah had a book of miracles He had done but He concealed it so nobody could see it, since He did not want people to believe in Him because of His miracles.
If success is any measure of a true religion, the Koresh movement cannot be a true religion, since it has not been successful in meeting its goals. By stark contrast, the Baha’i Faith has met or exceeded every single goal set forth by the Baha’i administration.
The goal of the Baha’i Faith administration has never been to increase numbers of adherents but rather to expand to as many locations as possible around the world. These goals have been met. The Baha’i Faith has spread to over 250 countries and territories and is almost as widespread as Christianity. Most of this happened during the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944) FOURTH PERIOD: THE INCEPTION OF THE FORMATIVE AGE OF THE BAHÁ’Í FAITH 1921–1944
David Koresh has some followers but they are dwindling, which is what happens to cults. By contrast, the Baha’i Faith is the second fastest growing religion in the world, closely trailing Islam. Growth of religion - Wikipedia
The Baha’i Faith was the fastest growing religion in the world from 1910-2010. Statistics show that from 1910-2010, the Baha’i Faith grew at a rate of 3.54%, whereas during that time Islam grew at a rate of 1.97% and Christianity grew at a rate of 1.32%. Growth of religion - Wikipedia
The fact that the number of Baha’is is still small is irrelevant because all *true religions* are small during the first few centuries. History demonstrates this.
Comparing Mormonism to the Baha’i Faith is not a fair comparison because Mormons worship Jesus Christ, thus the Mormon religion is essentially a sect of Christianity that broke away from the mainstream Christianity. Moreover, the pool of followers came from Christianity and it was not such a big jump as it would be for someone to become a Baha’i, which is an entirely *new* religion, every different from the older religions in many ways.
Trailblazer (in black)
ecco (in red)
ecco said: In other words - again - Baha’u’llah says he is God's messenger. How do we know Baha’u’llah is God's messenger? We know because Baha’u’llah says he is God's messenger.
Trailblazer said: No, that is not how we know. We know because of the evidence that indicates that He is a Messenger of God.The evidence that indicates that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger from God is as follows:
- What He was like as a person (His character)
- How do we know what he was like as a person? We read what he wrote about himself.
“Say: God is My witness! I have wished nothing whatever for Myself. What I have wished is the victory of God and the triumph of His Cause. He is Himself a sufficient witness between you and Me. Were ye to cleanse your eyes, ye would readily perceive how My deeds testify to the truth of My words, how My words are a guide to My deeds.” Gleanings, pp. 256-257
We know what He was like as a person because it is in the recorded history of the Baha’i Faith. People have written about Baha’u’llah, people who knew Him personally, or knew others who knew Him personally, so that is what we read. Everyone who knew Him was not even a Baha’i, but nevertheless, many knew He was more than an ordinary man.
This article is an overview of Baha’u’llah’s early life and it reflects on his character. Early Life of Bahá'u'lláh. I am sure that a lot more has been written. This is just one article I ran across.
His character is also addressed in the four volume set entitled “The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh” which covers the 40 years of His Mission, after He realized he was the chosen one in 1853.
Volume 1: Baghdad 1853-63
Volume 2: Adrianople 1863-68
Volume 3: Akka, The Early Years 1868-77
Volume 4: Mazra'ih&Bahjí 1877-92
- What He did during His mission on earth;
- What did he do? How do we know what he did?
SECOND PERIOD: THE MINISTRY OF BAHÁ’U’LLÁH 1853–1892
Chapter VI: The Birth of The Bahá’í Revelation
Chapter VII: Bahá’u’lláh’s Banishment to ‘Iráq
Chapter VIII: Bahá’u’lláh’s Banishment to ‘Iráq (Continued)
Chapter IX: The Declaration of Bahá’u’lláh’s Mission and His Journey to Constantinople
Chapter X: The Rebellion of Mírzá Yahyá and the Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh’s Mission in Adrianople
Chapter XI: Bahá’u’lláh’s Incarceration in ‘Akká
Chapter XII: Bahá’u’lláh’s Incarceration in ‘Akká (Continued)
Chapter XIII: Ascension of Bahá’u’lláh
- The history of His Cause, from the time He appeared moving forward;
- What is the history of his cause? How do we know the history of his cause?
- The scriptures that He wrote;
- Lots of people write self-serving scriptures: David Koresh did.
- What others have written about Him;
- What others? His followers? People with an agenda?
- The Bible prophecies that He fulfilled by His coming;
- Name one specific Bible prophecy he fulfilled.
I also have many of the prophecies posted on my forum, since I had an ongoing dialogue with a Christian a few years back.They are probably in the Christian Subjects folder. Delphi Forums Login
Below is one prophecy that is so specific that it could not have been fulfilled by anyone else.
Micah 7:12 “In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.”
And since He fulfilled it exactly as written (as well as fulfilling all the other prophecies in the OT) there is no reason to keep waiting for Jesus to return, or to wait for the Messiah other religions are waiting for. All you have to do is read the history to know that Baha’u’llah fulfilled this prophecy. What do you think, that another Messiah claimant is going to come along later and fulfill it exactly as Baha’u’llah did? Gimmie a break.
Persia was part of Assyria and to the East of the Holy Land. Baha'u'llah was persecuted and banished from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain, which fulfilled this prophecy. There is no way He could have had any control over fulfilling it in order to fool people, since He was a prisoner or an exile for 40 years. There are many other prophecies like it, things that happened during His mission and afterward that He had absolutely no control over. Geography cannot be faked, it just exists, and a lot of the OT prophecies refer to geography. Only a blind person could fail to see that Baha’u’llah was who He claimed to be, by the fulfillment of these prophecies alone.
- The prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled by His coming;
- Name one specific prophecy he fulfilled.
- The predictions He made that have come to pass;
- I've already shown that the predictions that you posted were not nearly specific enough to be considered anything more than musings like those of Nostradamus.
Baha’u’llah said what we are to use as evidence of His claim: (1) His Person (character), (2) His Revelation (what He accomplished on His mission, and (3) His words (the Tablets that He wrote). I added the predictions as part of the evidence because they *indicate* that He had supernatural powers and I know people consider that important. Notably, Baha’u’llah did not consider that important, or proof of who He was; otherwise, He would have said it was proof. In fact, Baha’u’llah had a book of miracles He had done but He concealed it so nobody could see it, since He did not want people to believe in Him because of His miracles.
- The religion that He established (followers), what they have done and are doing now.
- Joseph Smith has far more followers. David Koresh has followers.
If success is any measure of a true religion, the Koresh movement cannot be a true religion, since it has not been successful in meeting its goals. By stark contrast, the Baha’i Faith has met or exceeded every single goal set forth by the Baha’i administration.
The goal of the Baha’i Faith administration has never been to increase numbers of adherents but rather to expand to as many locations as possible around the world. These goals have been met. The Baha’i Faith has spread to over 250 countries and territories and is almost as widespread as Christianity. Most of this happened during the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944) FOURTH PERIOD: THE INCEPTION OF THE FORMATIVE AGE OF THE BAHÁ’Í FAITH 1921–1944
David Koresh has some followers but they are dwindling, which is what happens to cults. By contrast, the Baha’i Faith is the second fastest growing religion in the world, closely trailing Islam. Growth of religion - Wikipedia
The Baha’i Faith was the fastest growing religion in the world from 1910-2010. Statistics show that from 1910-2010, the Baha’i Faith grew at a rate of 3.54%, whereas during that time Islam grew at a rate of 1.97% and Christianity grew at a rate of 1.32%. Growth of religion - Wikipedia
The fact that the number of Baha’is is still small is irrelevant because all *true religions* are small during the first few centuries. History demonstrates this.
Comparing Mormonism to the Baha’i Faith is not a fair comparison because Mormons worship Jesus Christ, thus the Mormon religion is essentially a sect of Christianity that broke away from the mainstream Christianity. Moreover, the pool of followers came from Christianity and it was not such a big jump as it would be for someone to become a Baha’i, which is an entirely *new* religion, every different from the older religions in many ways.