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Is atheism a religion?

Alceste

Vagabond
True, but that wasn't the point. Some were claiming that some religions are science based, I was saying that they were un-scientific.

Nobody claimed such a thing. Taoism is a practice, and it is empirical in nature. You don't "believe", you "discover", through direct personal experience.

From wiki: "The word empirical denotes information gained by means of observation, experience, or experiment."

A lot of religious practices fit this definition, mostly in the East, but there are also shamanic practices derived through observation, experience and experiment (with entheogens, for example).

You ignored my question: what "supernatural" concept do you think I am believing in when I do tai chi?
 

dogsgod

Well-Known Member
Nobody claimed such a thing. Taoism is a practice, and it is empirical in nature. You don't "believe", you "discover", through direct personal experience.

From wiki: "The word empirical denotes information gained by means of observation, experience, or experiment."

A lot of religious practices fit this definition, mostly in the East, but there are also shamanic practices derived through observation, experience and experiment (with entheogens, for example).

You ignored my question: what "supernatural" concept do you think I am believing in when I do tai chi?
I don't know what you personally believe but there is much superstition and magical thinking surrounding these practices such as longevity and other unproven health benefits.
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
I consider it both dishonest and insulting to be told that atheism is my religion.

I agree I hate to be told what I believe.

BUT...

I have always thought that Atheists groups should be considered as a religious group in a political sense. This way they get to reap all the benefits that are given to religions under our current tax structure. It seems very unfair that Churches and Temples get government subsidies and secular humanist groups do not.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I don't know what you personally believe but there is much superstition and magical thinking surrounding these practices such as longevity and other unproven health benefits.

Poppycock. There are measurable health benefits associated with tai chi and chi kung. As I said before, they've been studied. The results are in. They deliver as advertised.

Take your pick.

tai chi - Google Scholar

Apart from your lack of familiarity with the relevant studies (hopefully now rectified), is there anything else "superstitious" or "magical" about my religion you'd like me to address?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Karma involves the supernatural and so does becoming enlightened by sitting under a tree, not to mention rebirth.

Really? Can you explain how those involve the supernatural? And, after that maybe you could explain why there are sects of Buddhism which don't adhere to all of those things.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
True, but that wasn't the point. Some were claiming that some religions are science based, I was saying that they were un-scientific.

If that was me, I wasn't 'claiming' I was presenting a hypothetical situation.
 

imaginaryme

Active Member
Atheism is whatever atheists say it is...

... Honestly guys, this helps atheists as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with this assessment, largely because...

It could also be argued that the etymology is athe- (no god/s) -ism (a practice or quality of). It could simply be the person "being, without God".

Atheism is not a self-referential system (such as, say; mathematics ;) ). In fact, it is almost the definition of irony. A logical position named from the completely illogical first principle, hmmm...

Let me tell it in my words. For the longest time, my religion was Antichristianity. Not anti-Christian, not anti-Bible nor -church; just against a mindset that formed rigid, non-empirical doctrine of dangerously narrow scope. It has been my experience that everybody is an "atheist" on the job first thing Monday morning; yet very few carry the same title come Sunday. Everybody knows the Bible says "render unto Caesar;" meaning a mind must also be put to worldly concerns. If atheism was simply "god doesn't exist," there would be nothing to say; and no branch of reasoning carrying the ironic title to not say it. Allow me to demonstrate my atheism- the Flying Spaghetti Monster is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard - and I believe that is only the second time in my life I have mentioned His Noodliness.

One must know the enemy to successfully counter the enemy - and I'll say it if you guys don't wanna - the concept that revealed religion offers the only truth needs to be de-conceptualized. I feel that many atheists abhor religion "because it is just plain evil and/or wrong" and thus do not wish to be stigmatized by the label of "religion." This need not occur, as religion is neither evil nor wrong; it is merely entrenched. What is required is an entrenching tool.

Besides, if atheists all of a sudden became more organized, more focused in their objections, and started thinking more like a religion; the rigid religionists would start to worry. (Muah-ha-ha-ha... since there's no little devil dude). But hey, it's all you. I'm just sitting at home doing math.

Why not? Evolution is a scientific theory. If Darwin's writings are about evolution then his followers, in their 'fellowship', will follow a doctrine of evolution. These people would identify themselves as a a group like any other religion but claim 'truth' and have the typical religious 'us' and 'you' mentality.

Dawkins...

Nobody claimed such a thing. Taoism is a practice, and it is empirical in nature.

I used to label my religion as Taoist because I always thought it was an inside joke. The tao is only "unexplainable," not supernatural. To me, it's just like color; one either sees it, or one doesn't. As an aside, if you don't mind, is Taoish akin to following the tao; just with a little extra?
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I used to label my religion as Taoist because I always thought it was an inside joke. The tao is only "unexplainable," not supernatural. To me, it's just like color; one either sees it, or one doesn't. As an aside, if you don't mind, is Taoish akin to following the tao; just with a little extra?

Yeah, Taoism faces the unknown and calls it mystery. It stares into the inexplicable and twiddles it around just to see what will happen. What comes out of this of this is a set of general principles that appear to be true, like "the soft overcomes the hard." Then Taoism takes these general principles that appear to be true and conducts subjective empirical investigations to determine - not whether they are TRUE, but whether they are USEFUL. E.g. if there is a way for a wet noodle to win a fight with a baseball bat, the Taoists will discover it and affirm the principle "the soft overcomes the hard". After thousands of years of approaching the world this way, practices have evolved which embody these principles, gleaned from observation of nature and verified through subjective empirical investigation. A Taoist won't tell you what to believe, or what is "right" - she will tell you what is most likely to happen if you do THIS, and what is likely to happen if you do THAT.

[/rant]. Anyway, Tao-"ish" means that while this is how I see the world on one level of my psyche, I don't practice this philosophy 24-7, so I don't feel I'm qualified to call myself a "Taoist." Eastern philosophies are about what you do, not what you think.
 

XenMonkey

New Member
Not a religion.
Being Atheist myself, I don't like the idea of being called a religion. It lessens the principle of the matter. We don't have any rituals, dogma, or requirement of faith. Atheism actually predates religion.
But being "religious" is not the same as being part of a "religion". You can be religious about anything but it is subjective and strictly personal.
 

imaginaryme

Active Member
Yeah, Taoism faces the unknown and calls it mystery. It stares into the inexplicable and twiddles it around just to see what will happen. What comes out of this of this is a set of general principles that appear to be true, like "the soft overcomes the hard." Then Taoism takes these general principles that appear to be true and conducts subjective empirical investigations to determine - not whether they are TRUE, but whether they are USEFUL. E.g. if there is a way for a wet noodle to win a fight with a baseball bat, the Taoists will discover it and affirm the principle "the soft overcomes the hard". After thousands of years of approaching the world this way, practices have evolved which embody these principles, gleaned from observation of nature and verified through subjective empirical investigation. A Taoist won't tell you what to believe, or what is "right" - she will tell you what is most likely to happen if you do THIS, and what is likely to happen if you do THAT.

[/rant]. Anyway, Tao-"ish" means that while this is how I see the world on one level of my psyche, I don't practice this philosophy 24-7, so I don't feel I'm qualified to call myself a "Taoist." Eastern philosophies are about what you do, not what you think.
I thought designing skyscrapers that danced in the wind covered the "soft vs. hard" bit; but noodle/bat works just as well. Thank you for sharing. You have really helped to clear my conception. My furballer's broke, else I'd have to hook you up. Let me draw you a picture sometime. :)
 
Atheism is just excuses people make up for they can do whatever they want whenever they want and try to get away with it. In all reality Atheist are just people who have nothing to believe nothing to look forward no hope, but just live horrible miserable lifes in a world that could care less about them. On the other hand Atheism is just another excuse for someone to try and get back at God because that person thinks that God did something wrongful to him/her. So what is your point Atheist? What are you living for? But hey what do I know I"m just another crazed "Jesus Freak" who just trying to help you change your life for the better.

Yeah you're right. My life is so meaningless and empty. Why am I living this life? I'm an athiest so i'm dead inside. I don't feel love and happiness. I'm just a sad lonely little man because i'm an athiest. Really, thank you for opening my eyes so I can see the light. Thank you for telling me about this wonderful sounding God person. Now my life will change forever.

Seriously.

Get

a

grip.

Do you have any idea how patronising you sound. If you're seriously trying to help people for the better, I genuinly applaud you. It's a great gesture. I'm not a fan of seeing people like yourself balls out judging people just because they don't believe in your God.
 

imaginaryme

Active Member
This place needs a warning sign, "sheep, beware!" Every time someone goes, "baaa;" there's twenty rational people with clubs jumping out of the woodwork. I learned at an early age that all the good intention in Creation doesn't add up to a hill of beans in a world that doesn't want to be saved. Growing up, for me, means in part respecting another's opinion.
 

whereismynotecard

Treasure Hunter
Wikipedia - Religion, a set of beliefs generally about life, meaning the ultimate purpose in the universe.
Nope. Atheists believe there is no god. That does not say anything about the meaning of life or the purpose of the universe. By not believing in god, not belief of meaning can be discovered. I don't believe god created life or the universe, but I don't have any theory as to how the universe and life came into being. And if I had, it would be my own theory, not the theory of all atheists.

allaboutreligion - The sum total of answers given to explain humankind’s relationship with the universe.
Pretty much the same as the last one. Not believing in god doesn't mean that I have any certain belief about humans' relationship with the universe.

thefreedictionary - A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
I don't know what that means.
 

imaginaryme

Active Member
Is atheism a religion? /QUOTE]

Is black white?

Is something with no color the same as something with color?

Cheers
The color of a material is pigment. The color that we see is electromagnetic radiation. Look at the Moon, yes; black is white.

there is no dark side of the moon really... matter of fact, it's all dark...
 

whereismynotecard

Treasure Hunter
The moon is cheese. Wouldn't that be cool? I love cheese. Not as much as Baggins does though. And because of this, atheism is not a religion.
 

imaginaryme

Active Member
The moon is cheese. Wouldn't that be cool? I love cheese. Not as much as Baggins does though. And because of this, atheism is not a religion.
Ain't up to you. You're a Nihilist, not an atheist. :p

And if the Moon were made of cheese... never mind. I think it's bed time. I'm getting silly. :p
 
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