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Is atheism the teenage revolt years?

9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
bobhikes said:
A teenager challenges his parents, believes he/she have the necessary knowledge, beleives he/she knows all that is needed.
The atheist challenges those that believe in God, The atheist knows that the answers are all in the world, The atheist knows that we have all we need.
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Wow. You don't understand atheists at all, do you?

You certainly don't understand this atheist.
 
atanu

atanu

Member
Premium Member
That is the point. Every theist also has a personal experience that may or may not be amenable to objective enquiry.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
atanu said:
That is the point. Every theist also has a personal experience that may or may not be amenable to objective enquiry.
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... making it rather useless and misleading to try to categorize all people into simplistic categories based on whether they're a theist or not, no?
 
work in progress

work in progress

Well-Known Member
idav said:
Just admit that atheists are all angst teens so we can close this case. Simple and easy. ;)
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Most atheists have ended up where we are because we keep asking questions, rather than just take things on faith. Reasoning is a better approach to finding the right answer than just going on faith, tradition and personal intuitions.

The problem is that a lot of atheists who consider atheism to be an organizing principle, want to portray themselves as completely rational, and all of their beliefs as based on science and evidence. Everyone has a history, and accumulates prejudices that are going to skew our thinking in one direction or another.

I have no issue with the OP, because I am sure that my rejection of religion cannot be untangled from my troubled relationship with my father and my rejection of his religious beliefs. But that was a long time ago; and my hostility to religion and its adherents has been tempered in middle age. If it was just teenage rebellion, I wouldn't have remained an atheist.....I just haven't been very impressed with all of the different sales pitches for God and religion since then.

As for closing this thread -- I wouldn't be surprised if two years from now, it's still going and about 500 pages long.
 
Songbird

Songbird

She rules her life like a bird in flight
Respectfully, I see little difference between atheists and agnogs, and debating who's got the superior conclusion is tiresome. I'm not sure we usually label ourselves or others accurately, so our bases for analysis may be wrong anyway.
 
The Neo Nerd

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
bobhikes said:
I was thinking about god and punishment. To my sons I am very much like God. I hand out punishments and tell them no when they want to hear yes. I also make them do things they don't want to do.

This is all for there betterment, so that they can be productive as adults. Currently they are adolescents.

When they become teenager's they are going to revolt. They will believe they know better than me(they will know somethings better I'm not god). They will want to leave my house. They will want to live there own way.

Then when they become adult's they will realize some truths. There will be a balancing of our lives. Although father and son we will be more compromising.


Now all people don't go through all stages. What I am equating this to is our religious beliefs.

Theist - Child State
Atheist - Teenage State
Agnostic - Adult State

What do you think
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It's a fairly decent analogy.

However agnosticism isn't the middle of the ground between atheism and theism.

I guess i could call myself an agnostic atheist.

I believe that all god concepts (i include all religious concepts in this as well) are made for the purpose of explaining the world around us and assuaging the fear and uncertainty of death. My proof for this is the myriad and vastly differing religious and god concepts believed throughout history. This covers my atheism.

As far as my agnosticism goes this comes from the fact that i cannot in all good honesty say that i KNOW that there is no god out there, however i can, in all good honesty, say that i KNOW that none of the god concepts put forward to date are true/factual. The biggest mistake the theists have made is give their god characteristics that can then be disproved.

The thing is that theism and atheism is about belief and gnosticism and agnosticism is about knowledge.

So therefore i think the progression goes something like this:

Atheism - Because babies are not born with the ability to conceptualise anything outside of themselves.
Theism - As the individual's thought processes evolve to a point where they can see themselves as separate from the world around them and they try to make sense of the world. In the absence of an explanation the individual will resort to magical thinking.
Atheism - As the individual acquires explanations of the world around them the magical thinking is no longer required.

Of course i'm sure the religious members will get rather grumpy at this, however they cannot say that this process does not happen for other things than their religious beliefs. The difference between an atheist and a theist is that the atheist applies the progression to religious beliefs as well.

-Q
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Songbird said:
Respectfully, I see little difference between atheists and agnogs, and debating who's got the superior conclusion is tiresome.
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The fighting is so vicious when the difference is so small.

Alas, I can't muster any malice since I'm both an atheist & an agnostic.
 
ManTimeForgot

ManTimeForgot

Temporally Challenged
Revoltingest said:
The fighting is so vicious when the difference is so small.

Alas, I can't muster any malice since I'm both an atheist & an agnostic.
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If your definition of agnosticism is: "I cannot know whether or not a deity exists" and your atheism is a "weak version" wherein one's confidence is not absolute (not certain) to the claim that "a god or "God" does not exist," then they can and do intersect. This is just the same as "weak theism" and agnosticism intersecting. Such a person would recognize that they can't strongly evidence/prove the existence of a deity, but chooses to believe one is likely or that one does exist.

I think the problem between atheism and agnosticism only arises when people start making strong claims. Strong atheism and agnosticism are mutually exclusive positions. It might actually bare scrutiny to find our what percentage of atheists are strong versus weak. I am not certain, but I would like to hope that most are weak.

MTF
 
Photonic

Photonic

Ad astra!
ManTimeForgot said:
If your definition of agnosticism is: "I cannot know whether or not a deity exists" and your atheism is a "weak version" wherein one's confidence is not absolute (not certain) to the claim that "a god or "God" does not exist," then they can and do intersect. This is just the same as "weak theism" and agnosticism intersecting. Such a person would recognize that they can't strongly evidence/prove the existence of a deity, but chooses to believe one is likely or that one does exist.

I think the problem between atheism and agnosticism only arises when people start making strong claims. Strong atheism and agnosticism are mutually exclusive positions. It might actually bare scrutiny to find our what percentage of atheists are strong versus weak. I am not certain, but I would like to hope that most are weak.

MTF
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I actually define the strong atheist position as true atheism. Or totally lacking a belief in a deity. Basically THE definition.

I make no claims as to know, but I place about as much certainty in a deity as I place in any fictional character.

Doesn't mean I can't be spiritual, doesn't mean I can't practice a religion. It just means I completely lack a belief in any sort of deity.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
work in progress said:
Sure you did! And yet you don't consider trying to force Judaism into Christianity to be ludicrous.
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Well, considering Christianity was originally a Torah-obedient Jewish sect that paid the Temple tax, your comment is what's ludicrous. Perhaps you mean to say "Pauline post 2nd century Christianity", When you said "sure you did", are you implying I didn't take any Bio or Philosophy classes? Try sticking to the actual subject instead of diverging to the details of my personal religion.
 
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Songbird

Songbird

She rules her life like a bird in flight
ManTimeForgot said:
I think the problem between atheism and agnosticism only arises when people start making strong claims. Strong atheism and agnosticism are mutually exclusive positions. It might actually bare scrutiny to find our what percentage of atheists are strong versus weak. I am not certain, but I would like to hope that most are weak.

MTF
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Photonic said:
I actually define the strong atheist position as true atheism. Or totally lacking a belief in a deity. Basically THE definition.

I make no claims as to know, but I place about as much certainty in a deity as I place in any fictional character.

Doesn't mean I can't be spiritual, doesn't mean I can't practice a religion. It just means I completely lack a belief in any sort of deity.
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My view is both the agnostic and atheist lack a belief in deities, and neither adhere to any religion (as a belief, but as Photonic pointed out, they may in practice). When it comes to lacking beliefs, I don't see an appreciable difference - just a slight one. Is there a practical difference? Meaning, in general do atheists behave or process differently than agnostics?
 
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