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Is Baha'u'llah true or false Prophet?
- Thread starter Faithofchristian
- Start date
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Well, there's so many things that your prophet has to fulfill. It is awesome that his name is "The Glory of God". It is everywhere in the NT and Jewish Bible, but it was a title chosen by him or given to him? Well, that's not so awesome.
Then we have every religion saying what will happen before and after the return of their particular Promised One. Some things work, some don't. Some things are made symbolic to make them work. Israel is far from being at peace. Even though it may not be true about a prophet must die in Jerusalem, I do think that the Jewish Messiah and the Christian Jesus does have to be in Jerusalem and has to do certain things.
Then there are things like a great tribulation before the return and the Battle of Armageddon and the Anti-Christ. But then add in Buddhism, Hinduism and the other major religions. I still want to know how Baha'is can make the prophecies about the Maitreya and Kalki to have been fulfilled by a man in Persia that gets exiled and imprisoned in Palestine/Israel?
But, in some ways, does it matter if the teachings of the Baha'i Faith actually work and can bring peace to the world? But can they? Are all Baha'is at peace with each other? Do all Baha'is work together in harmony? Can the Baha'i Administration work and maintain peace and harmony in the Baha'i world community?
I've seen it. I've seen the same problems that all people have. Some leaders abuse their power. People divide up and take sides. Lots of people just go about what they need to do to survive and be relatively happy and leave all the problems of running things to others.
Some people wealth and some don't, even amongst the Baha'is. If you take it from the rich and give it to the poor, does that solve the problem? Some people have a big house and lots of land and others don't.
Can the Baha'i laws and teachings really fix all these things? If they can, great. But things just keep going. Workers strike. Poor people starve. Exploited people protest. Or worse, they fight and kill each other.
But still, one of the first things that the Baha'i Faith proposes, that all nations disarm. Like what? Disband their military? Or just keep them but don't give them any weapons? I really don't see how that can happen.
And what do Baha'is say? How will it happen? How will we know for sure that all nations have conformed? But then what about the people? The drug cartels and the mob? Terrorist groups and gangs?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If Jesus returned to this world, how would you know it was Jesus?
Most Christians are waiting for Jesus to return, although they do not all agree on when or how He will return, but if a man came claiming to be Jesus how would you know it was really Jesus? After all, there are no photos of what Jesus looked like when He walked the earth 2000 years ago...
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Pete in Panama
Well-Known Member
thanks, that's exactly what I was talking about.
Pete in Panama
Well-Known Member
What I'm getting here are many many reasons why u feel Baha'u'llah is not a Prophet, yet like what I was asking have been asking syo , just who can u accept as a Prophet? If you believe that all religious leaders are frauds then at least we can be in agreement that Baha'u'llah and Christ are the same.
syo
Well-Known Member
My husbands.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
What I'm asking is that one of the many people claiming to be some special person sent by God actually follow through. No peace in the Middle-East or anywhere else in the world. Is that what the Messiah, Jesus, the Madhi, the Maitreya, Kalki and any other end-time promised ones were supposed to do?
Your prophet is supposed to be all of the promised ones rolled up into one. I've listened and watched Baha'is for fifty years. I'm not sure, but I think they were doing more fifty years ago. Enrollments were up. Giving signs of "entry by troops". Then it fizzled. In the 80's there was the "Promise of Peace" and a big peace conference in San Francisco. I was there. What happened?
What are Baha'is doing to promote their religion and to promote peace? Because what Baha'is are doing here on the forum seems to be causing a negative reaction in all but a few cases. Can Baha'is be the ones that help bring people together? Are they really all that together in their own Baha'i communities? If it's working great. But is it working?
In your community, how many new Baha'is have been added in the last 10 years? How many have dropped out or are inactive? How many different people have been elected to your LSA and NSA? Or has it been mostly the same people? Like I said, if it's working great. But here in the U.S. I don't know that it is.
What have you been doing to bring about peace for those years CG? As Baha'i, we can only promote and live the principles, its not all up to us you know, matter of fact less up to us than the majority of humanity, who will have to embrace the change required for world citizenship and unity.
The lack of numbers is already foretold CG, also foretold is the possibility of the Baha'i being cut off from the World Centre.
I personally see there is not turning back from these conflicts, the change is happening. These days will be cut short, but what is short in God's time? During the change we are told that is when people will be most receptive, as the as a result of the perplexity of these times, they will be seeking answers.
The answers have been given.
Regards Tony
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that goes to show you don't have a clue what Christianity is about and you don't believe the words of Jesus.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I once had a situation where what I said by the Holy Spirit was opposite by what another person said by the Holy Spirit. God later told me that both were correct so that was a viewpoint difference. However that is a rare thing. Most issues are black and white. You are either right or wrong and in either case must prove your point.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus did not say that God lives inside of people. That is only what Christians interpreted certain verses in the Bible to mean.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Some things are either true or false, but nothing is black or white. That is a logical fallacy.
black-or-white
You presented two alternative states as the only possibilities, when in fact more possibilities exist.
Also known as the false dilemma, this insidious tactic has the appearance of forming a logical argument, but under closer scrutiny it becomes evident that there are more possibilities than the either/or choice that is presented. Binary, black-or-white thinking doesn't allow for the many different variables, conditions, and contexts in which there would exist more than just the two possibilities put forth. It frames the argument misleadingly and obscures rational, honest debate.
Example: Whilst rallying support for his plan to fundamentally undermine citizens' rights, the Supreme Leader told the people they were either on his side, or they were on the side of the enemy.
Your logical fallacy is black or white
That's irrelevant as @CG Didymus didn't claim to be the promised one of all religions in my view.
Where? I remember being told to prepare for "mass entry by troops"
In my view if it is only foretold as a possibility it is not really a prophecy Tony. You can't say it failed whether the event of being cut off does or does not occur because it is only mentioned as possible.
No one is exempt, we are the body of humanity. That means you are not exempt either.
Regards Tony
This is where one needs to be immersed in the ocean of God's Word. There is so much to find out about these subjects, it is all written.
Here is but one passage about the number of Baha'i.
“The vastness of the field, the smallness of your numbers, the indifference of the masses, must neither discourage nor appal you. You should at all times fix your gaze on the promise of Bahá’u’lláh, put your whole trust in His creative Word, recall the past and manifold evidencesof His all-encompassing and resistless power, and arise to become worthy and exemplary recipients of His all-sustaining grace and blessings.” (~ In the handwriting of Shoghi Effendi, appended to a letter dated 29 June 1941,written on his behalf to the National Spiritual Assembly of India.)
It is not until we are immersed that apparent contradictions can be annulled. The timing of the entry by troops is not known. My reading of the writings would suggest it is after the Lesser Peace.
Example
".....We have only to refer to the warnings uttered by `Abdu'l-Bahá in order to realize the extent and character of the forces that are destined to contest with God's holy Faith. In the darkest moments of His life, under `Abdu'l-Hamíd's régime, when He stood ready to be deported to the most inhospitable regions of Northern Africa, and at a time when the auspicious light of the Bahá'í Revelation had only begun to break upon the West, He, in His parting message to the cousin of the Báb, uttered these prophetic and ominous words: "How great, how very great is the Cause! How very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause. Then shall the knights of the Lord, assisted by His grace from on high, strengthened by faith, aided by the power of understanding, and reinforced by the legions of the Covenant, arise and make manifest the truth of the verse: `Behold the confusion that hath befallen the tribes of the defeated!'"
2
Stupendous as is the struggle which His words foreshadow, they also testify to the complete victory which the upholders of the Greatest Name are destined eventually to achieve. Peoples, nations, adherents of divers faiths, will jointly and successively arise to shatter its unity, to sap its force, and to degrade its holy name. They will assail not only the spirit which it inculcates, but the administration which is the channel, the instrument, the embodiment of that spirit. For as the authority with which Bahá'u'lláh has invested the future Bahá'í Commonwealth becomes more and more apparent, the fiercer shall be the challenge which from every quarter will be thrown at the verities it enshrines...."
2
Stupendous as is the struggle which His words foreshadow, they also testify to the complete victory which the upholders of the Greatest Name are destined eventually to achieve. Peoples, nations, adherents of divers faiths, will jointly and successively arise to shatter its unity, to sap its force, and to degrade its holy name. They will assail not only the spirit which it inculcates, but the administration which is the channel, the instrument, the embodiment of that spirit. For as the authority with which Bahá'u'lláh has invested the future Bahá'í Commonwealth becomes more and more apparent, the fiercer shall be the challenge which from every quarter will be thrown at the verities it enshrines...."
I see there are still a lot of signs that are yet to be made manifested before entry of troops can become a reality, I do not see it happening before the Lesser Peace. I personally see the Lesser Peace will see a period when humanity tries to do away with religion.
".. Baha’u’llah said that first, the nations of the world would arm themselves with infernal engines of war, and when fully armed would attack each other like bloodthirsty beasts. As a result, there would be enormous bloodshed throughout the world. Then the wise from all nations would gather together to investigate the cause of such bloodshed. They would come to the conclusion that prejudices were the cause, a major form being religious prejudice. They would therefore try to eliminate religion so as to eliminate prejudice. Later they would realize that man cannot live without religion. Then they would study the teachings of all religions to see which of the religions conformed to the prevailing conditions of the time. It is then that the Cause of God would become universal...." The Revelation of Baha’u’llah Vol. 4, p. 56
Regards Tony
No one is exempt from the duty of being peaceful, but if we fail to establish peace it doesn't make us false messiahs in my view.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Baha'u'llah did not 'fail' to establish peace because He never promised to establish peace Himself.
He said that we could have had peace if the kings and rulers had heeded His call.
If the kings and rulers had followed the counsels of Baha’u’llah the Most Great Peace could have been established during Baha'u'llah's lifetime, but they all rejected Him, thereby relinquishing the Most Great Peace they could have had, so He told them they would have to settle for the Lesser Peace.
"Now that ye have refused the Most Great Peace, hold ye fast unto this, the Lesser Peace, that haply ye may in some degree better your own condition and that of your dependents.
O rulers of the earth! Be reconciled among yourselves, that ye may need no more armaments save in a measure to safeguard your territories and dominions. Beware lest ye disregard the counsel of the All-Knowing, the Faithful.
Be united, O kings of the earth, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you, and your peoples find rest, if ye be of them that comprehend. Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice."
That is because we are not Messiahs. That we fail to do what is asked of us, that does not make a true Messiah false.
God always gives us the chance to change, we are not compelled to do so.
Regards Tony