Fluffy said:
The most legitimate (and only) argument against bestiality is that animals are unable to give informed consent just like children, the mentally handicapped. the deceased and those who say no. Legitimate because almost everybody agrees that informed consent is mandatory for moral sex and therefore everybody has to accept the consequences of that premise.
It does not matter that that a dog can let you know whether it wants to have sex or not. A child can say yes or not just as easily as can a person under duress. Anyone who makes something of this has decided that consent, any sort of consent, is sufficient without thought to what makes consent meaningful.
Unfortunately, this isn't actually an argument against bestiality since the immoral component is the lack of informed consent and not the species of the partners.
Therefore, bestiality is amoral as is necrophilia and adult-child sex but rape is always fundamentally wrong and this factor underscores all of these activities.
So the question comes down to:
Can an animal indicate it is happy to have sex with a Human?
You've compared it to two different examples - a child who isn't mature enough to understand, and rape.
First of all, is zoophilia rape?
Well, many animals are much stronger or at least as strong as Humans. Anyone who's tried to bath a cat can attest to how strong a cat can be. A german shepherd is stronger than that. when an animal is forced to do something that is does not want, it will fight back, just like a cat who doesn't want a bath, or a dog who doesn't want to get into the dog carrier for a trip to the vet. The animal will try to escape, or it will attack the person who is forcing it.
So, if a person has sex with an animal, does the animal have a chance to escape? Well, as I have said before, if a dog is having sex with a woman, then the woman is pretty much on all fours. her arms and legs are supporting her weight, and the dig is behind her. Not the best position for the woman to be able to force the dog to mount her. if someone can show how they can hold a dog above them while on all fours, I'd be happy to reconsider, but in that case I think it's safe to assume that the dog isn't being forced.
granted, there are cases where an animal is forced to have sex with a Human, such as that article about the poor dog who was raped a few pages or so ago in this thread. Now, I think that is terrible, not because it was an animal, but because the animal was forced. It's bad for the same reasons as raping a human is bad. but if the animal is a willing participant, then I have no problem.
That leads to the other problem. As Fluffy said, even a child could say yes to sex.
Is that really the case? When was the last time a 7 year old said, "I really want to have sex"? At that age, kids haven't gone through puberty. They don't have the hormones to make them interested in sex. You may get one or two, but the vast majority of children are not interested in sex until they reach puberty. Thus, I think that for the most part, any act of sex with children is rape. A child does not have the mental or emotional maturity to make the decision. heck, i think a fair percentage of late teens don't even that sort of maturity. So, we have to ask if an animal has the emotional maturity...
A child, given the opportunity to have sex, would rarely accept that opportunity of their own free will. Children simply aren't that interested in sex. They do not get that interest in sex until their bodies are sexually mature. But, again using the example of dogs, a sexually mature dog will often take the opportunity to have sex. Show me a puppy humping someone's leg and I'll reconsider this, but the evidence indicates that dogs, and most animals, do not display any interest in sex until they are physically mature enough for it.
What, though, of emotional maturity? The question of whether a sexually mature dog is emotionally mature enough to have sex seems ludicrous. granted, there are dogs that are not emotionally mature, like those dogs who believe that shadows are dangerous, or that they have to mark everything as their own territory. But for the most parts, dogs are healthy from an emotional point of view. And when we look at the attitudes of people who aren't emotionally mature enough to have sex, then we see that they display no interest in it. Same with animals. I've never seen a male kitten try to mount a female kitten for sex. And in any case, if we are to claim that an animal should not have sex because it isn't mature enough, then we must conclude that the animal should not have sex at all, even with its own species. After all, it does not take a different level of maturity to have sex with a person than it does with another member of its own species. if anything, it takes LESS maturity to have sex with a human, as there will be no pregnancy. Many animals help with the raising of the offspring - which is not required with inter-species mating.
So, it seems clear that an animal can have consensual sex with a Human, and that it is able to make the judgement to do so. Thus, the claims that an animal is unable to give consent is just plain wrong. An animal is very capable of indicating a desire for sex. Granted, if the animal is forced against its will to have sex with a Human, then it is rape and is wrong, because no one has the right to force another being to act against its will. But in many cases the animal is not only happy to go along, but can even initiate the encounter!
Apart from the rape issue, the opinion on whether or not it is okay to have sex with an animal depends entirely on the two parties involved. Many animals don't care if it's a Human or not, so it comes down to the opinions of the person. And if they don't like the idea of sex with an animal, then they don't have to be involved in it. But they don't have the right to use their opinions to control others.
if you don't like the idea of having sex with animals, then you are under no obligation. But that doesn't mean it is wrong, it just means that you don't like it.
