Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Ingledsva]

When, as an unbeliever of 27 years who had picked up a Bible for the first time to debunk Christianity, I eventually came to the point where I made the conscious decision that I believed the Body of work to be what it claimed to be. The word of our creator, Jehovah God. In doing so I had to admit that as our creator he knew what was best for us and then I had to decide whether or not I wanted to abide by his wisdom, guidance and sovereignty or not. I decided I would do my best, and though not surprisingly having been born in a sinful system I would fail miserably at it, I would nevertheless do my best.

You can still believe the Bible is the word of YHVH, while understanding that some of it has been mistranslated, and or misunderstood.


ALL real science shows people are born homosexual.


They have been a pretty constant percentage of all births, since records have been kept.


That means (if you believe in God) that there is a reason for homosexuals.


As such, - they would be a creation of God, - and those mistranslated attack homosexual texts - are wrong!



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[sojourner]

When, as an unbeliever of 27 years who had picked up a Bible for the first time to debunk Christianity, I eventually came to the point where I made the conscious decision that I believed the Body of work to be what it claimed to be. The word of our creator, Jehovah God. In doing so I had to admit that as our creator he knew what was best for us and then I had to decide whether or not I wanted to abide by his wisdom, guidance and sovereignty or not. I decided I would do my best, and though not surprisingly having been born in a sinful system I would fail miserably at it, I would nevertheless do my best.

There still seems to be an incongruity between your statement that you have accepted your homosexuality as "who you are," and the inference that the bible says, "homosexuality is wrong." Doesn't that imply that you, somehow, don't "measure up" as God made you? Or do you not believe that God made you homosexual -- that your sexual preferences are wholly a product of a sinful upbringing?

 

[AlphaAlex115]

I see but do gay people have a soul?

 

[sojourner]

I see but do gay people have a soul?

Yes, and they're FABULOUS!!!

 

[Ingledsva]

I see but do gay people have a soul?

If you believe in such things - why wouldn't they?



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[Muffled]

Because Jesus was sooooo against lifting the downtrodden, including the outcast, and freeing the oppressed?

But frankly, I don't give a tinker's dam what you "believe." You've never been to my church, you're not familiar with our theological design, our praxis, or our missional impetus. So you're really not in a position to comment on the state of our acceptability. When you can park your butt in a seat and participate in what's going in, then an opinion might be valuable.

I believe I am sure Jesus would be happy to free a homosexual from his sin and the church should be helpful to Jesus in that regard. I am reminded of the dinner at Peter's house where Jesus ate with sinners and the pharisees found fault with that. You do know what Jesus said don't you?

I beleive I have the love in Jesus in me. I will always care what you believe.

I believe you are correct in that and I have only judged by what you have said about it.

 

[Muffled]

OK.

Atheists have no "views" about religious concepts of "sin".

A silly and simple conclusion comes painfully forward... "NO".

"Being gay" is NOT a sin.

Does that help?

I believe that is correct that a lack of rules means one can do anyhting he wants.

 

[sojourner]

I believe I am sure Jesus would be happy to free a homosexual from his sin and the church should be helpful to Jesus in that regard. I am reminded of the dinner at Peter's house where Jesus ate with sinners and the pharisees found fault with that. You do know what Jesus said don't you?

Problem is, homosexuality isn't a sin or a disease that can be "cured." Homosexuality is a person's sexual identity. Jesus helped people to understand that those of differing identities were to be respected and accepted.

 

[Muffled]

I don't believe that the Law was handed down directly from Heaven. Much of it was tribal codes that have nothing to do with us today. Christians do not live under the burden of the Law, we live by Spirit and Grace.

The Bible is not a science textbook.

I believe you just called God a liar.

 

[Muffled]

Problem is, homosexuality isn't a sin or a disease that can be "cured." Homosexuality is a person's sexual identity. Jesus helped people to understand that those of differing identities were to be respected and accepted.

I believe you are very confused about what Jesus taught. However I will give you an opportunity to attempt to proof text your belief.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Problem is, homosexuality isn't a sin or a disease that can be "cured." Homosexuality is a person's sexual identity. Jesus helped people to understand that those of differing identities were to be respected and accepted.

There are plenty of conditions that can't be cured. I thought a supernatural God would handle that through miracles. If God can walk on water then surely he can cure or convert gays to straight. So not being curable is not a reason to believe God is okay with homosexuality.

 

[sojourner]

I believe you are very confused about what Jesus taught. However I will give you an opportunity to attempt to proof text your belief.

I don't proof text.

 

[sojourner]

There are plenty of conditions that can't be cured. I thought a supernatural God would handle that through miracles. If God can walk on water then surely he can cure or convert gays to straight. So not being curable is not a reason to believe God is okay with homosexuality.

Why is there a need to convert homosexuals? Since homosexuality isn't a disease, there is no need for a cure. Again: Why would someone who is healthy and whole need to be "converted" from that wholeness?

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Why is there a need to convert homosexuals? Since homosexuality isn't a disease, there is no need for a cure. Again: Why would someone who is healthy and whole need to be "converted" from that wholeness?

Cured was the wrong word but rather 'healed' or restored is better since it applies to a broader range negative things affecting the mind/body, like mental illnesses, diseases, and demonic possessions, etc. Jesus dealt with all 3 by healing and this includes those whose condition were completely biological or innate (Gospel of John 9:2).

As for your last question, I would say biblical writers had a different classification for what they considered healthy. What they considered natural and unnatural was based on what they viewed as God's design for sexual relations and marriage for mankind and that line of reasoning is referenced in Romans 1. Also, the apostle Paul was not alone. Here's one of Paul's Jewish contemporaries and a NON-Christian at that:

"And let the man who is devoted to the love of boys submit to the same punishment, since he pursues that pleasure which is contrary to nature, and since, as far as depends upon him,..."
The Works of Philo (Special Laws chapter, paragraph 7, line 39 )

And I really want to know about your view on transgenderism since some are saying that that's natural. Can a transsexual be a Christian? Seems if you accept homosexuality based on your logic, I would question why wouldn't you also accept people wanting to change their sex. Philo speaks against that as well. Let me know if you want the source and quotation and we can also get into the Bible, as well.

 

[Ingledsva]

I believe you just called God a liar.

There is a lot of scientific bull in the Bible.


How exactly does pointing out that the people whom wrote it, or later copied it, or even later translated it, wrote down error; - make one calling God a liar?


Is the earth a scribed flat round pancake shape, with the heavens like a tent above it?



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[Ingledsva]

I believe you are very confused about what Jesus taught. However I will give you an opportunity to attempt to proof text your belief.

Supposedly Christians are not under the old laws, and Jesus apparently didn't find homosexuality something he needed to condemn, - so - unless one is a hypocrite, picking one or two of those old laws to use against people, - How is he confused, or wrong?




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[Saint Frankenstein]

I believe you just called God a liar.

Men wrote the Bible, not God. If you love the Mosaic Law so much, convert to Judaism.

 

[Imaginary_Friends]

The people whom cry to YHVH don't mention homosexuals. YHVH when he says he is going down to - YADA - doesn't mention homosexuality. And again - YHVH wasn't saying he was going down for some Gay sex!

How many times are you going to keep repeating you're red herring of Yahweh coming down? Yes we know Yada has more then one meaning! That's what you do not seem to understand.

LOL! Dude! You guys keep repeating - and saying nothing new.


You have not proved your points.

We do not have to prove anything. You as a fellow skeptic should know that the one who makes the claim shoulders the burden of proof. We are just stating that the existing interpretations stand. You provide no proof what so ever. Not only that you say both Christendom and Islam are wrong in regards to homosexuality in it’s entirety which is a extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence.

All you point to is a Hebrew word you think you know and subjectively choose a alternative meaning.

It's irrefutable that the translation is correct for Lot referring to his daughters as not knowing man.

Do you have any theological credentials to make such a bold claim? Is Hebrew your first language? Are you even fluent in Hebrew? Arabic?

The very source you get you're Hebrew translation from actually verifies the existing traditional translation! Your own source disproves your own claim LOL!

This almost rivals The Da Vinci Code. Do you have book deal offers yet? What has the Vatican's response been?

You don't even have a hypothesis. At best its conjecture mixed with illogical speculations.

 

[Ingledsva]

Cured was the wrong word but rather 'healed' or restored is better since it applies to a broader range negative things affecting the mind/body, like mental illnesses, diseases, and demonic possessions, etc. Jesus dealt with all 3 by healing and this includes those whose condition were completely biological or innate (Gospel of John 9:2).

As for your last question, I would say biblical writers had a different classification for what they considered healthy. What they considered natural and unnatural was based on what they viewed as God's design for sexual relations and marriage for mankind and that line of reasoning is referenced in Romans 1. Also, the apostle Paul was not alone. Here's one of Paul's Jewish contemporaries and a NON-Christian at that:

"And let the man who is devoted to the love of boys submit to the same punishment, since he pursues that pleasure which is contrary to nature, and since, as far as depends upon him,..."
The Works of Philo (Special Laws chapter, paragraph 7, line 39 )

And I really want to know about your view on transgenderism since some are saying that that's natural. Can a transsexual be a Christian? Seems if you accept homosexuality based on your logic, I would question why wouldn't you also accept people wanting to change their sex. Philo speaks against that as well. Let me know if you want the source and quotation and we can also get into the Bible, as well.

Good grief people - read something outside Christian propaganda.


I kept it simple for you guys. This is from an article by a person that decided to look into the "science" question of transgendered people. It has links throughout. National Review Laverne Cox story: The science of sex and transgenderism.


"Some of those exceptions include androgen insensitivity syndrome, in which a person with a “male” Y chromosome can have female sex characteristics such as breasts and a vagina. Babies with a condition called 5-alpha-reductase deficiency often appear female at birth, with female external genitalia, and then develop male genitalia during puberty. Turner syndrome (in people who have a single X chromosome), Klinefelter’s Syndrome (in people who have XXY chromosomes), and many other genetic variants also result in intersex individuals, all of which make biological sex difficult to reduce to an absolute binary."

"We tend to dismiss people who don’t fit into our rigid binary understanding of sex as “defective.” But in some parts of the world, communities where intersex conditions are more common have an understanding of sex that embraces those variations. For example, the Sambia people of Papua New Guinea, who have high rates of hermaphroditic conditions, have three different words to describe three distinct sexes."


"
A number of studies have suggested that there may be a biological explanation for transgender identities. The androgen receptor known as NR3C4 plays a critical role in the development of primary and secondary male sex characteristics, and one study found that male-to-female transgender people have longer repetitions of the gene for that receptor, which reduced its effectiveness at binding testosterone. That study concluded: “There is a likely genetic component to transsexualism.”


According to another study, a genetic variant of the enzyme CYP17, which influences the sex hormones progesterone and pregnenolone, can be linked to people with female-to-male transgender identities. That study concluded that CYP17 is a “candidate gene” of female-to-male transgender identities. Male-to-female transgender identities have also been linked to prenatal androgen exposure."

"In other words, biology suggests that sex is not a subjective feeling or a “delusion,” but rather a matter of genetics, hormone exposure, brain composition, and any number of unknown variables, and that sex can’t be neatly divided into two categories"



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[sojourner]

Cured was the wrong word but rather 'healed' or restored is better since it applies to a broader range negative things affecting the mind/body, like mental illnesses, diseases, and demonic possessions, etc. Jesus dealt with all 3 by healing and this includes those whose condition were completely biological or innate (Gospel of John 9:2).

As for your last question, I would say biblical writers had a different classification for what they considered healthy. What they considered natural and unnatural was based on what they viewed as God's design for sexual relations and marriage for mankind and that line of reasoning is referenced in Romans 1. Also, the apostle Paul was not alone. Here's one of Paul's Jewish contemporaries and a NON-Christian at that:

"And let the man who is devoted to the love of boys submit to the same punishment, since he pursues that pleasure which is contrary to nature, and since, as far as depends upon him,..."
The Works of Philo (Special Laws chapter, paragraph 7, line 39 )

And I really want to know about your view on transgenderism since some are saying that that's natural. Can a transsexual be a Christian? Seems if you accept homosexuality based on your logic, I would question why wouldn't you also accept people wanting to change their sex. Philo speaks against that as well. Let me know if you want the source and quotation and we can also get into the Bible, as well.

About your statement in red: That's what I've been saying all along.

With regard to transgenderism: God gave us sovereignty over our own actions. I've seen some transgender folks who were far healthier having changed sex. I think some are born "cross-wired," so to speak. I think some are hermaphrodites who have to choose. But I think that, sure, Transgender folks absolutely can be Chrsitian.