Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[shmogie]

It's not that they behave differently, exactly. They're just attracted to members of the same sex. I still don't see you making this important distinction.

Please clarify, I am not sure I know what you mean

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am left handed, and thus abnormal, I am sure there is a cause for this, I have never been curious about it

Being left handed is statistically abnormal, but left handedness itself is not abnormal because it is a very normal thing for people to be.

 

[sojourner]

I agree abnormal does not equal wrong, I believe what the Bible says, but I have an obligation to myself to evaluate all the available evidence.

1) The bible says sin is wrong.
2) The bible says homosexuality is sin.
3) You believe the bible is inerrant.
4) You follow biblical principles.
5) Homosexuality is abnormal.
6) Abnormal does not equal wrong.

In what possible, logical way are 1-5 congruent with 6?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Something causes them to behave differently from the norm of their physical characteristics, it is possible it is choice, since no one can say definitely what it is

But why lean in the direction of it being a choice when,
1) You acknowledge that you never made a conscious choice to decide who you are attracted to
2) Gay people themselves will tell you they never made a conscious choice about who they are attracted to

?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Please clarify, I am not sure I know what you mean

Attraction is not a behavior, is what I'm saying.

 

[shmogie]

Attraction is not a behavior, is what I'm saying.

Correct, a consistently done act is behavior

 

[Ingledsva]

Any more recent instances? Y'know, involving CHRISTIANS, not post-Exile Jews, which I have not already discussed and refuted?

Apparently you missed the part about Jewish converts to Christianity continuing to hold slaves.

And apparently you missed the fact that European Christians also used the Bible to say they had a God given right to own slaves.

Perhaps you missed my comment that ALL of the religions of Abraham held slaves?

Perhaps you missed the fact where I said the religions of Abraham held slaves from the writing of Tanakh - up to the Civil War?

All you have to do is Google it.

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[Ingledsva]

So, to speak a truth, that might offend someone, somewhere, one must deny that truth ? I loathe in general members of violent gangs, if one is hurt by that, so be it. I loathe abortionists who commit murder by killing unborn children after the first trimester of pregnancy, if that hurts their feelings so be it. I do not dislike in any way shape or form homosexuals in general. I'm sure some are ********, and some are kind people. My experience has been with a family member and others that they are fine people., I only came across one who was an absolute loser, he was violent and frequently beat up his "friends:". So, the truth is, the Bible has clear directions for my interactions with homosexuals., it has nothing to do with my feelings I won't compromise my beliefs, or response to these instructions, if those words have a negative effect on someone, so be it. YOUR words may have a negative effect on me or those who believe like me, shall I ask you to shut up because your words might be offensive to me or they, or do you not really care ? You believe you are right, right? So, in your rightness you say what you believe, Why criticize me for doing the same ?

What instructions?

Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuals!

What did Jesus do?

He sat down to dinner and conversation with sinners!

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[Ingledsva]

It is not an attitude, that implies I can "change my attitude". I cannot change clear directions spoken by one I believe speaks for the Divine, whatever my attitude. The continual use of the term "violence" when none exists is one of the most dishonest uses of the language I have ever seen. You would have me sacrifice my faith, on the alter of someones feelings might be hurt. Won't happen

Again - prove it!

Prove those "clear directions" are there!

And don't just throw up those TRANSLATIONS again! As we have already shown where they have translated words that DON'T mean homosexual - into homosexual!

Prove it!

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[shmogie]

Again - prove it!

Prove those "clear directions" are there!

And don't just throw up those TRANSLATIONS again! As we have already shown where they have translated words that DON'T mean homosexual - into homosexual!

Prove it!

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You are wrong, I don't need to prove it to you or anyone else. You believe all the translations by all the linguists and scholars are wrong, I believe you are nuts

 

[shmogie]

What instructions?

Jesus said NOTHING about homosexuals!

What did Jesus do?

He sat down to dinner and conversation with sinners!

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Jesus said nothing about billions of things. Right, he spread the good news of his kingdom to any and all that would listen, some rejected it

 

[shmogie]

Apparently you missed the part about Jewish converts to Christianity continuing to hold slaves.

And apparently you missed the fact that European Christians also used the Bible to say they had a God given right to own slaves.

Perhaps you missed my comment that ALL of the religions of Abraham held slaves?

Perhaps you missed the fact where I said the religions of Abraham held slaves from the writing of Tanakh - up to the Civil War?

All you have to do is Google it.

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A person may call himself a Christian, but if his acts show otherwise, he certainly is not

 

[Ingledsva]

Nicely written, and I understand where you are coming from. I believe Christ loves humanity and we are predestined to be saved. We have free will, and that may affect our ultimate and final, condition. Christ wanted his message to be preached to every person, irrespective of race, religion creed or sexuality. His message is an offer that can be freely accepted or rejected. The NT of the Bible is the only definitive source of Christ's teachings. He himself set the precedent that if his message is rejected, one must move on, just as he did. He makes it clear that there are two roads to follow, and many will follow the wrong road. Paul was an Apostle. along with the others, who was inspired by God to preach to the Gentiles, and to establish the Gentile church. He confirms over and over again the love of God for all people, but he also confirms that God cannot and will not abide with or compromise with sin. As the old true cliche says, God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. Christians should love sinners, but they have no responsibility to judge the sin. We are all sinners, and as the bumper sticker says, Christians are just forgiven. I might add the Christ said the Spirit would come, and empower people to fight the sin in their lives. Paul left clear rules that one is to follow. It has nothing to do with someone making judgements, it has every thing to do with people following the code of behavior laid down by God through Paul. I and people like me try and follow that code, because we believe it is Gods will for us. We do not hate, we do not accuse, we do not persecute our services are open to all, and all are free to attend, and they always focus on Christ's love, a love so strong, he died as a result of it. However,Christ used the word repent more than he did love, and repent means to change from worldly ways, and embrace

Gods way. God through Christ and the Apostles defined his way, and to paraphrase Pilate, "what will you do with this man ?" I neither accuse or convict, that is solely Gods pervue, but I have an obligation to follow as far as I am able those things that were laid down as a guide to my behavior, all of them. those who choose otherwise and call themselves Christians will find no dispute with me. We all walk our path's as we believe we should. That is the way it was intended

Jesus said nothing against homosexuals!

The NT was written after Jesus' death - most likely by people that didn't know him, - or hear his message! Most of the writings are long-long after!

And those writings show error - such as misreading Isaiah and that "virgin" birth which was actually just a maiden, - and no future prophecy of Jesus. Or the "sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool," which they use for Jesus, - and is actually about King David!

Saul-Paul was not actually an "apostle" as he was not chosen by Jesus. He came along after Jesus' death. He conveniently said he had a vision of Jesus, - and took over.

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[Ingledsva]

Jesus said nothing about billions of things. Right, he spread the good news of his kingdom to any and all that would listen, some rejected it

We aren't talking about billions of things!

We are talking about something you folks claim is a sin - worthy of death!

Jesus would have covered such a thing in his teaching - if it were true. He didn't say anything about it.

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[shmogie]

Wrong once again. Except for Luke who states clearly he is conducting an investigation, all Gospel writers, and the writers of virtually all other books knew Jesus

 

[shmogie]

We aren't talking about billions of things!

We are talking about something you folks claim is a sin - worthy of death!

Jesus would have covered such a thing in his teaching - if it were true. He didn't say anything about it.

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Enough already. I am not going to repeat myself, again. I make no claim that homosexuality is a sin worthy of death

 

[Ingledsva]

A person may call himself a Christian, but if his acts show otherwise, he certainly is not

Cop-out plain and simple. No true Scotsman!

And I will add, - how can you claim that when their accepted Bible says they can hold slaves forever???

How are they not true Christians - when they are doing what their Bible says they can do?

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[Ingledsva]

Wrong once again. Except for Luke who states clearly he is conducting an investigation, all Gospel writers, and the writers of virtually all other books knew Jesus

That is just plain false.

Look it up! Google is your friend.

Forgot to add - How could Saul-Paul know Jesus, when he didn't join the Christian group until after Jesus' death?

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[SkepticThinker]

Correct, a consistently done act is behavior

But again, we're not talking about acts.
We're talking about attractions and feelings.

 

[Ingledsva]

Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God and such were some of you. But you were washed. You were sanctified, you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God. 1 Cor 6; 9-11 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people but i certainly did not mean the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters since then you would need to go out of this world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother who is sexually immoral, or an idolater, or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner= not even to eat with such people, 1cor.5; 9-11 NKJV Do not call me a liar as to what the Bible says, the translation is the same in 7 different versions (translations) and the words are properly translated according to the Greek lexicons I have checked. Note that in Paul's day there were homosexuals who by Gods power became heterosexuals. It is illegal to fire or evict someone because they are homosexuals, that is denying their rights defined in the Constitution. the rest of your post is blather, not pertinent to the discussion as far as I am concerned.

How often do we have to point out to you folks that homosexuals and sodomites are not in I Cor 6:9-11?

The verse actually says -

1 CO 6:9 Know you not that the “heathen” shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither prostitutes (pornos,) nor idolaters (eidōlolatrēs,) nor adulterers (moichos,) nor the morally weak (malakos,) nor arsenokoites (rapists,

There are no ancient Greek texts using arsenokoites or its stem as homosexuality. There are uses for both male and female as RAPE.

The Thesaurus Linguae Graecae. TLG has collected and digitized most literary texts written in Greek, from the 8th century BC to the fall of Byzantium in AD 1453. They have 73 references to the arsenokoit stem. There are NO early Greek uses of the word as “homosexual.” LATER - the church decides to translate it as such – then these later texts copy the church original.


Malakos means soft, pampered, lazy, idle rich, gamblers, etc. In other words Fops and Dandies like Jack in the pirate movies. Think of castles in England or France - and rich lazy men dressed in brocade and lace, with powdered wigs, overeating, and drinking, and gambling, and brothels!

Proven by other places it is used in the Bible -

..Luke 7:25 ..But what went ye out to see? a man clothed in soft (MALAKOS) garments? Behold, those who are in splendid clothing and live luxuriously are in the courts of kings. ..

NOW! I'll say it AGAIN! - PROVE your translations are correct!

PS - Where does it say there were homosexuals in Paul's day that became heterosexual?

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