Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Ingledsva]

From my perspective nature only proves, as the scriptures indicate, that all of creation is impacted by the fall of humanity and sin...

"Is it any wonder, then, that - given mankind's inherent corruption and the condemnation we intuitively sense - anguish, suffering, and heartache have been our on-going lot? The terror spawned by war; the horror of slavery - still today plaguing millions; noisome disease; a mother's agony at her child's grave site; crippling accidents; birth defects; wrongful convictions; the guilty set free; the grief arising from infidelity and divorce; abusive authority; and the list goes on and on - and includes the bondage of homosexuality. There's no end to it.


But that's not all. Nature itself has been dragged into sin's wake. Animals and plants grapple with disease and death as well. Even the earth itself is crushed under its weight - and reflects the anguish it causes: the 2005 Indonesian tsunami, the 2011 Japanese tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, the earthquake that leveled Haiti - it all bears witness to the horror wrought by sin.


For we know that all creation groans ... in pain . . .


Rom. 8:22 "

http://discipleshipproject.us/homosexualitypag.html

The Bible does NOT say animals are impacted in any way by the fall, other then being born into the world. Humans are impacted in that they are intelligent and are born into a word of choice.

Rom 8:22 means something different.

Rom 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

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[Shadow Wolf]

but I don't sense that you are very happy or have found fulfillment in your life.

I've hit a rough spot lately, and, yes, I am unhappy with my current position. But, god can't change that. Getting away from my family and moving to where I can use my skills to get a decent job will.
As for fulfillment, yes, I do have that. I've recorded bass in a few bands, my artwork has been featured in a few places, and I've even had a few things published. I haven't packed stadiums, made millions, or had my work featured in galleries, but knowing someone took a picture I drew and had it tattooed on them makes me ecstatic. Knowing people see a picture I drew when they go to the library I used to work at is a flood of dopamine in my brain. Knowing my stories have been enjoyed, and have been described as "page turners," it's a mega huge ego stroke. Knowing people have heard me playing bass in some demos, knowing people have enjoyed hearing my bass playing, fulfillment doesn't even begin to describe it.

 

[shmogie]

Alright, but things that are contradictory, like the claim that you know based on faith, cannot be true. All I'm saying is that the claim of certainty based on faith is necessarily false.

Do you have faith that when you get up in the morning gravity will hold you down ? Do you know this or believe this ?

 

[shmogie]

The Bible does NOT say animals are impacted in any way by the fall. Only humans in that they are born into a word of choice.

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wrong

 

[shmogie]

I don't think it is "good", but that is a vague term plagued with subjectivity. I personally get enjoyment out of my attempt to contribute to society in any way I can. If death is the end, I will live on in those contributions and those that follow as a result. I am not selfish enough to base meaning entirely on my own immortal soul. I don't find it necessary for my own consciousness to live on for meaning to be attainable in life. It seems to be asking for far too much in the interest of self preservation.

Good. I said that when I had these musings I was an atheist, I did not believe I had an immortal soul. "I am not selfish enough" what difference doe it make whether you are selfish or not ? Others are selfish in wanting what you can provide them. ( I am asking as a philosophical atheist, not as a Christian) what yardstick exists that you can measure anything by ? If I got pleasure from killing little girls, and pleasure is the most meaningful and important thing to me, and I knew how to do it so society's meaningless laws can't touch me, I have evolved to the point I can safely attain what is most important to me in life, what's wrong with that ?

 

[shmogie]

We're not talking about one of many random sins in the Bible, but of something that is a fundamental part of who are as humans. Nearly almost everyone has sexual attractions, because it is a very human trait to have. People desire loving relationships with others, and many Christians feel homosexuals should be denied this. This isn't like smoking a cigarette, gambling, drunkeness, or some other temptation that you can take-it-or-leave-it, but something that is a very deep and very personal thing that has huge implications as to who we are as a person.

Then how is it I found more happiness and lasting fulfillment after I ceased following Christianity and began following Existentialism?

You don't know this. I had no happiness, at all, as a Christian. In my post-Christian life, however, I allowed myself to do things that did make me happy, that did allow me to accept myself, and even look at myself in the mirror without being overcome with depression.

As gently as I can, with no intended slight, a simple point, you identified as a Christian, and had no happiness at all, were you truly a Christian ? A rhetorical question, I neither want nor deserve an answer. I am making no judgements, at times I ask myself the same question

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A rhetorical question, I neither want nor deserve an answer.

You'll get it: Yes, I was. I know there is no way to prove this. I can go on about being dedication, baptism, and all that, but you'll just have to take my word that yes, I was a Christian.

 

[Ingledsva]

It may not be enough for you, but for me the totality of God's word is enough to prove that anything outside of God's design and will is sin, homosexuality being one of many. The scriptures state that man was made in the image of God... So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.(Gen. 1:27). The image of God is represented in male and female, not only male and not only female. As I previously pointed out in Ephesians the union of Christ and the church is pictured in the union and marriage between a man and a woman. I think the real issue is not that homosexuality is a sin, but rather that any sexuality or any behavior for that matter which is outside of God's design and will cannot bring ultimate happiness for anyone. Instead it brings confusion and self-destruction.

"That brings us to the word "destruction" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 ...
... when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power ...
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9

The word "destruction" in verse 9 does not mean "annihilation." Both the word itself (ὄλεθρος) and its context tell otherwise. Anyone who undergoes destruction is ruined - meaning he is eternally kept from living out the telos that defines him at the core of his being.

Homosexuality, then, is all about destruction: it threatens to leave the men and women who fall victim to it, including those who condone it, without significance and purpose - adrift in a sea of cosmic meaninglessness - a kind of hell they've willingly given themselves over to."
http://discipleshipproject.us/homosexualityexc.html

And why would verses stating the obvious for procreation purposes, - somehow mean variations of the same didn't exist?

And "destruction" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 does mean total destruction.

They came from a Jewish background. ALL went to Sheol to await the Messiah whom would give the Final Judgment at the end. The good would rise, the bad would continue in death - total destruction - along with Sheol.

KJV 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

KJV 2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

They use the word "pur" which comes from the word for a smelting furnace - used throughout the Bible. The idea being that the smelting furnace burns off the dross, leaving only the pure. SO it would be better translated -

2 Th 1:8 In the smelting furnace's blaze shall be retribution for those that don't know God, and those who don't heed the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Th 1:9 Which same's judgment penalty is death eternal: separation from the presence of the Lord, and separation from his glory and power.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - 2 Thessalonians 1:8 "... and the punishment of ungodly men is often signified by fire, and flames of fire, by the fire of hell, and a lake which burns with fire and brimstone, by a furnace of fire, ..."


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[leibowde84]

Do you have faith that when you get up in the morning gravity will hold you down ? Do you know this or believe this ?

I know it based on demonstrable evidence. Iow, it is not only the most plausible, but it is based on concrete evidence and repeated experimentation.

 

[InChrist]

I've hit a rough spot lately, and, yes, I am unhappy with my current position. But, god can't change that. Getting away from my family and moving to where I can use my skills to get a decent job will.
As for fulfillment, yes, I do have that. I've recorded bass in a few bands, my artwork has been featured in a few places, and I've even had a few things published. I haven't packed stadiums, made millions, or had my work featured in galleries, but knowing someone took a picture I drew and had it tattooed on them makes me ecstatic. Knowing people see a picture I drew when they go to the library I used to work at is a flood of dopamine in my brain. Knowing my stories have been enjoyed, and have been described as "page turners," it's a mega huge ego stroke. Knowing people have heard me playing bass in some demos, knowing people have enjoyed hearing my bass playing, fulfillment doesn't even begin to describe it.

I am sorry you are unhappy in your circumstances and can understand how sometimes the people or situations around us can be very difficult. But I think real happiness goes deeper than what goes on around us and is a peace and joy that comes from within. I believe this kind of happiness comes only from the presence of Christ dwelling in one's heart which even difficult circumstances can't take away.
It sounds like you have some special skills and talents. Congratulations on your accomplishments.

 

[leibowde84]

Good. I said that when I had these musings I was an atheist, I did not believe I had an immortal soul. "I am not selfish enough" what difference doe it make whether you are selfish or not ? Others are selfish in wanting what you can provide them. ( I am asking as a philosophical atheist, not as a Christian) what yardstick exists that you can measure anything by ? If I got pleasure from killing little girls, and pleasure is the most meaningful and important thing to me, and I knew how to do it so society's meaningless laws can't touch me, I have evolved to the point I can safely attain what is most important to me in life, what's wrong with that ?

No, I am saying that meaning can be achieved through contributing to others. It isn't just pleasure, but the pleasure I receive from contributing to societal progress. I am in no way claiming that pleasure is the goal.

 

[Ingledsva]

As gently as I can, with no intended slight, a simple point, you identified as a Christian, and had no happiness at all, were you truly a Christian ? A rhetorical question, I neither want nor deserve an answer. I am making no judgements, at times I ask myself the same question

I was a Christian, - studied the Bible, - took Comparative Religion, - and a separate history of the Catholic church, etc.

It was not unhappiness, or anything of that sort, that made me leave the Bible and Christianity.

It was the realization - after actual study of the Bible, - that the irrational, baby murdering, "God" of the Bible - could not actually be God.

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[Ingledsva]

I personally don't feel I need anything beyond God's word, but in the the real world I see that sexuality outside of God's design doesn't bring lasting satisfaction or fulfillment and does bring much heartache, emptiness and varying degrees of physical and emotional ailments.

That is your opinion. There are one-hell-of-a-lot of us that don't agree with you.

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[InChrist]

You'll get it: Yes, I was. I know there is no way to prove this. I can go on about being dedication, baptism, and all that, but you'll just have to take my word that yes, I was a Christian.

I don't think you have to prove you were a Christian since God would already know and it would have been between you and God anyway. I just know that many people, including myself, were baptized, went to church, and considered themselves to be Christians only to later have come to a totally different understanding, point of real repentance, laying aside self, and fully for the first time trusting Jesus Christ alone for one's entire life direction. It is different and transforming.

 

[Ingledsva]

Well actually Paul did meet Jesus, perhaps in a way you don't acknowledge. Luke makes it clear his Gospel was the result of his investigation into the events, by interviewing the original witnesses. If the dating of the Gospels is, at the earliest 140 AD, as has been proposed, then he could have never spoken to the original witnesses. A blatant lie

So as stated - neither of them actually met Jesus.

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[InChrist]

That is your opinion. There are one-hell-of-a-lot of us that don't agree with you.

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I know there are many who don't agree with my perspective. That's okay and that is your prerogative. I don't need people to agree with me in order to still love them with the love of Christ.

 

[Ingledsva]

Matthew recounts Christ's prophecy regarding the destruction of the temple, yet it says nothing about the actual destruction of the temple in 70AD. If it were written post 70 AD this would have been a logical thing to expect as confirmation of the prophecy, yes ?

Why - when they were at that point trying to put together the "fable" of Jesus as trinity - son of God - born of virgin - and other such baloney? so - Just - after-the-fact - write as if Jesus predicted it.

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[shmogie]

So as stated - neither of them actually met Jesus.

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That wasn't the issue, READ

 

[shmogie]

Why - when they were at that point trying to put together the "fable" of Jesus as trinity - son of God - born of virgin - and other such baloney? so - Just - after-the-fact - write as if Jesus predicted it.

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Off point, READ

 

[Ingledsva]

I am not speaking of " claims made in the Gospels referring to authenticity ", I am speaking of evidence within the Gospels that can be applied in a logical fashion to establish authenticity. You are saying that a witness statement cannot be evaluated to establish the veracity of that witness. Contrary to the rules or evidence, that is totally illogical

We are not talking about a witness that we can track down and verify the information directly from, and find corroborating evidence.

We are talking about a text with a lot of fantasy claims, - which obviously puts it in instant doubt.

And as you have been told, - the majority of theologians do not think most of the books were written by the people they name as author.

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