Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

[Ingledsva]

It actually is debatable in modern circles rather the Bible condemns homosexuality, or if it condemns something related to idolatrous practices. I've seen Christian scholars that do not think the Bible condemns homosexuality. They point to various things, such as the ancient Hebrews having no notion of human sexuality equatable to our modern one, and the fact that words like 'Arsenokoitai' in 1 Corinthians are vague, and their definition isn't agreed on.

Yep, I've told them this over-and-over, even showing the verses, and the actual Hebrew or Greek words, and they say naner-naner ain't so!

How they can live with their self lies, - I don't understand.

For instance - Qadesh and Qadeshah mean Sacred Sex Prostitutes, and will NEVER mean homosexuals, which is how they are now being translated.

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[Ingledsva]

The Bible does not say and that does not make if right.

I read your posts. Please use black or unbolded red

Nor wrong, - so can't use it against people.

I used Bold Red to differentiate between our posts, - because your post had Bold Black and Blue.

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[Ingledsva]

CHIEFLY law, not exclusively law. No better word for me to use, so, over your strident picky protests, I will keep using it. Citing animal behavior as a reason for human behavior is nonsense. You have listed "tons" of evidence............................ then, you have proven why homosexuality exists in humans ? A simple yes or no will do

LOL! We are animals.

The fact that homosexuality exists in us and the rest of the animal kingdom, - shows it is natural, - part of nature, - and obviously (since it is in less intelligent animals as well,) - not a choice.

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[SkepticThinker]

Impeached is the correct word. The gist of the conversation flew right over your head. The person with whom I was discussing evidence put an artificial timeline on it's acceptance, we weren't discussing the method of evaluating evidence. Have you, or anyone else, posted a cause(s) of homosexuality that would prove beyond a reasonable doubt why it is present in human's ? No, you have not

I think most people have on this thread.

I guess now we can wait for you to point out the causes of heterosexuality.

 

[shmogie]

LOL! And I'll say it again - PROVE IT!

The Bible does not say no same-sex marriage. Nor even that such is wrong. Nor does it say male-female marriage is the only marriage.

It doesn't even actually say homosexuality is wrong - as shown.

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Have proven it, you are incapable thinking anything close to objectively on the issue. The best you come up with is "Jesus never said homosexuality is wrong", "the words were translated wrong" and " the rabbi's said" and some pontificating about non canonical books, many written well into the second century, and finally citing the practices of some crazy cults as "Christian behavior". It won't do, it just won't do. I won't go back over again all of the Biblical evidence, it won't seep in anyway you cannot grasp it. Your weak and pitiful arguments are like the Titanic sinking, and you are just re arranging the deck chairs as it goes down. Believe what you choose, no matter how absurd

 

[shmogie]

I think most people have on this thread.

I guess now we can wait for you to point out the causes of heterosexuality.

Nope, it ain't there.

 

[shmogie]

This is false.

It was understood that male and female were needed for procreation - but we have evidence from around the world, - of ancient same-sex marriage.

Here are a few.

According to the midrash Sifra, traditionally attributed to Rabbi Hiyya, a bit after 200 CE, the Egyptians and Canaanites had same sex marriage.

There are also pictures of same sex couples in ancient Egyptian wall art.

We know that ancient Chinese men and women married same-sex..

Same with some tribes in countries in Africa - right up to today.

Both North American and South American tribes had same-sex marriage, - some to this day.

At least two of the Roman Emperors were in same-sex marriages. The first Roman emperor to have married a man was Nero, who is reported to have married two other men on different occasions. Nero "married a man named Sporus in a very public ceremony... with all the solemnities of matrimony, and lived with him as his spouse" A friend gave the "bride" away "as required by law." The marriage was celebrated separately in both Greece and Rome in extravagant public ceremonies. The emperor Elagabalus married an athlete named Hierocles in a lavish public ceremony in Rome amidst the rejoicings of the citizens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions

And though Christians today are trying to claim these aren't marriages -

"A same-sex marriage between the two men Pedro Díaz and Muño Vandilaz in the Galician municipality of Rairiz de Veiga in Spain occurred on April 16, 1061. They were married by a priest at a small chapel. The historic documents about the church wedding were found at Monastery of San Salvador de Celanova." - Carlos Callón. "Callón gaña o Vicente Risco de Ciencias Sociais cun ensaio sobre a homosexualidade na Idade Media"

"At St. John Lateran in Rome (traditionally the Pope's parish church) in 1578, as many as thirteen same-gender couples were joined during a high Mass and with the cooperation of the Vatican clergy, "taking communion together, using the same nuptial Scripture, after which they slept and ate together" according to a contemporary report. Another woman to woman union is recorded in Dalmatia in the 18th century.

Prof. Boswell's academic study is so well researched and documented that it poses fundamental questions for both modern church leaders and heterosexual Christians about their own modern attitudes towards homosexuality."

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You know don't you that Wikepedia is not a source that any person serious about an issue would use ?

 

[Ingledsva]

Have proven it, you are incapable thinking anything close to objectively on the issue. The best you come up with is "Jesus never said homosexuality is wrong", "the words were translated wrong" and " the rabbi's said" and some pontificating about non canonical books, many written well into the second century, and finally citing the practices of some crazy cults as "Christian behavior". It won't do, it just won't do. I won't go back over again all of the Biblical evidence, it won't seep in anyway you cannot grasp it. Your weak and pitiful arguments are like the Titanic sinking, and you are just re arranging the deck chairs as it goes down. Believe what you choose, no matter how absurd

LOL! You have proven nothing.

I have shown text, language, ancient documents, and provided links.

Jesus DIDN'T say homosexuality was wrong. - Nor did he say only male-female marriage.

Those "cults" are recognized Gnostic Christian groups, and have been providing Biblical theologians, and other historians, information, - especially about practices and writings possibly destroyed with the Nicean Councils, - for instance.

LOL! I provide actual Proof - language - links, etc., and show where your supposed "Bible proof" isn't actually in the Bible! Which means it is YOU "that can't grasp it," and are thus crying nanner-nanner-ain't-so!

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[Unveiled Artist]

Nor wrong, - so can't use it against people

What does this have to do with those verses arent there therefore it doesnt make same-sex marriage right?

 

[Ingledsva]

You know don't you that Wikepedia is not a source that any person serious about an issue would use ?

LOL! What do you not understand about MIDRASH, Egyptian texts, Egyptian tomb art, and actual documents from the Christian Churches mentioned?

By the way - I posted some pictures of that tomb art, and other text information somewhere here.


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[Ingledsva]

What does this have to do with those verses arent there therefore it doesnt make same-sex marriage right?

We are in a debate in a thread titled - Is being gay a sin according to your religion?

ALL of the debates hinges on that.

If no such texts - against - actually exist in the Bible, - then they cannot claim being Gay is a sin according to their religion, nor again, as such texts don't exist, that the related topic same-sex marriage, is a sin according to their religion.

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[shmogie]

Whether your citations about Catholic rites are true or not is irrelevant. Ever heard of the Reformation ? The Catholic church had become so perverted and corrupt and money hungry it had to be reformed. They had a four year old pope, a pope with 11 kids, etc., etc. So any perversion they got up to doesn't indict Christianity, it simply proves what I already knew, the Catholic church of the time was corrupt and perverted. The Catholic church refused to clean up enough, and Protestantism came into existence. No cigar

 

[SkepticThinker]

Nope, it ain't there.

I assure you, it is. So do all the people who actually posted them.

 

[Ingledsva]

Whether your citations about Catholic rites are true or not is irrelevant. Ever heard of the Reformation ? The Catholic church had become so perverted and corrupt and money hungry it had to be reformed. They had a four year old pope, a pope with 11 kids, etc., etc. So any perversion they got up to doesn't indict Christianity, it simply proves what I already knew, the Catholic church of the time was corrupt and perverted. The Catholic church refused to clean up enough, and Protestantism came into existence. No cigar

LOL! "perverted" IN YOUR OPINION! Not in FACT!

And their documents do exactly what they were meant to do - PROVE early Christian same-sex marriage ceremonies.

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[shmogie]

LOL! What do you not understand about MIDRASH, Egyptian texts, Egyptian tomb art, and actual documents from the Christian Churches mentioned?

By the way - I posted some pictures of that tomb art, and other text information somewhere here.


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I couldn't care less about what you posted, it is irrelevant. I have said nothing re other religions and cultures

 

[shmogie]

LOL! "perverted" IN YOUR OPINION! Not in FACT!

And their documents do exactly what they were meant to do - PROVE early Christian same-sex marriage ceremonies.

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The 1600's are 1500 years after "early Christianity".

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If no such texts - against - actually exist in the Bible, - then they cannot claim being Gay is a sin according to their religion, nor again, as such texts don't exist, that the related topic same-sex marriage, is a sin according to their religion

What you are missing is context can prove something is wrong just as content.

No scripture doesnt mention same-sex marriage.

Theh mention a heck of the opposite both in scripture and in culture.

On what evidence can you way they are wrong when no evidence prooves you are right?

 

[Ingledsva]

The 1600's are 1500 years after "early Christianity".

LOL! Red Herring. They are still early, and prove my point about Christian same-sex marriage.

Did you miss the one about Jesus possibly having a same-sex rite?

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[Ingledsva]

What you are missing is context can prove something is wrong just as content.

No scripture doesnt mention same-sex marriage.

Theh mention a heck of the opposite both in scripture and in culture.

On what evidence can you way they are wrong when no evidence prooves you are right?

We are just going to go round-and-round.

On what evidence can you say I am wrong when no evidence prooves they are right?

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[InChrist]

This is false.

It was understood that male and female were needed for procreation - but we have evidence from around the world, - of ancient same-sex marriage.

Here are a few.

According to the midrash Sifra, traditionally attributed to Rabbi Hiyya, a bit after 200 CE, the Egyptians and Canaanites had same sex marriage.

There are also pictures of same sex couples in ancient Egyptian wall art.

We know that ancient Chinese men and women married same-sex..

Same with some tribes in countries in Africa - right up to today.

Both North American and South American tribes had same-sex marriage, - some to this day.

At least two of the Roman Emperors were in same-sex marriages. The first Roman emperor to have married a man was Nero, who is reported to have married two other men on different occasions. Nero "married a man named Sporus in a very public ceremony... with all the solemnities of matrimony, and lived with him as his spouse" A friend gave the "bride" away "as required by law." The marriage was celebrated separately in both Greece and Rome in extravagant public ceremonies. The emperor Elagabalus married an athlete named Hierocles in a lavish public ceremony in Rome amidst the rejoicings of the citizens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions

And though Christians today are trying to claim these aren't marriages -

"A same-sex marriage between the two men Pedro Díaz and Muño Vandilaz in the Galician municipality of Rairiz de Veiga in Spain occurred on April 16, 1061. They were married by a priest at a small chapel. The historic documents about the church wedding were found at Monastery of San Salvador de Celanova." - Carlos Callón. "Callón gaña o Vicente Risco de Ciencias Sociais cun ensaio sobre a homosexualidade na Idade Media"

"At St. John Lateran in Rome (traditionally the Pope's parish church) in 1578, as many as thirteen same-gender couples were joined during a high Mass and with the cooperation of the Vatican clergy, "taking communion together, using the same nuptial Scripture, after which they slept and ate together" according to a contemporary report. Another woman to woman union is recorded in Dalmatia in the 18th century.

Prof. Boswell's academic study is so well researched and documented that it poses fundamental questions for both modern church leaders and heterosexual Christians about their own modern attitudes towards homosexuality."

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Thank you for all the interesting info. It certainly does indicate that there have been deviations from God's design for human sexuality over the ages. It also reveals that these are not the norm for marriage and clearly against God's word in the scriptures since He repeatedly warned the children of Israel against participating in the abominations and practices of the Canaanites and other pagan nations surrounding them, as Paul warned Christians concerning the perverted sexual customs of the non-believing pagans in the NT.

But since you are not a Christian and don't care what God thinks you are certainly free to believe such information validates your view.