Is Belief (or Lack Thereof) a Choice?

[Mock Turtle]

Yeah and for science, then there is the rest:

Science has limits: A few things that science does not do - Understanding Science

undsci.berkeley.edu

Of course reality is more than just science, but as I said, base reality is what we should work with - not the things that either work against science - like the Young Earth Creationism nonsense or the divisive stuff coming from religions - doctrinal stuff as to male and female roles or whatever.

 

[Mock Turtle]

What does science, in your opinion, tell us about reality? And how does it do that?

Where do you want to look for starters?

Branches of science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RestlessSoul]

Of course reality is more than just science, but as I said, base reality is what we should work with - not the things that either work against science - like the Young Earth Creationism nonsense or the divisive stuff coming from religions - doctrinal stuff as to male and female roles or whatever.

What is base reality, and how do we recognise and evaluate it?

 

[Mock Turtle]

What is base reality, and how do we recognise and evaluate it?

As I pointed out, stuff that anyone can prove for themselves, or get others to do so if not able - and where science generally does this.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Where do you want to look for starters?

Branches of science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Can you give me an answer in your own words, without help from Google or Wikipedia? It’s your ideas and thought processes in interested in.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Can you give me an answer in your own words, without help from Google or Wikipedia? It’s your ideas and thought processes in interested in.

No you aren't. You are just being silly.

 

[RestlessSoul]

As I pointed out, stuff that anyone can prove for themselves, or get others to do so if not able - and where science generally does this.

Can you offer a brief definition of what you mean by the reality from which all things emerge?

 

[RestlessSoul]

No you aren't. You are just being silly.

You think it’s silly to question reality, and our relationship with it?

 

[Eddi]

Is belief a choice? Why or why not?

Is lack of belief a choice? Why or why not?

Human beliefs are dictated by the sub-conscious

Beliefs are not chosen by the executive function which otherwise guides us

They are automatic and a thing that our executive function needs to manage and act upon

As far as I am concerned, I am more than my conscious inner monologue

I am (and all humans are) an assemblage of independent, interrelated processes that all exist together in one psyche

 

[Nakosis]

Is belief a choice? Why or why not?

Is lack of belief a choice? Why or why not?

I think belief or lack of belief is mostly a subconscious process.
Can we consciously control it? Perhaps but it wouldn't be easy. Basically you'd have to choose to reprogram your subconscious.
If you'd choose to immerse yourself as completely as possible into an ideology, after enough time it'd start to make sense and eventually you'd feel comfortable with the belief.

This normally happens unconsciously though. You listen to radio/video/read books constantly which support some ideology and your subconscious mind gets programmed to to feel an ideology starts to make sense.

This is even in the Bible, Romans10:17 “... Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God”
The more you immerse yourself into Christian ideology, the more it will start to make sense to you.

However the more skeptical ideology you listen to, the more skeptical you become.

Is it possible to reverse this? Maybe but I think it'd be really hard. Like trying to brainwash yourself.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Can you offer a brief definition of what you mean by the reality from which all things emerge?

Who mentioned emergence? What has this got to do with how the reality of the world appears to humans - in everyday life? Do people ask wherefore emergence in their daily lives? People operate with certain beliefs about reality - base reality - so as to be able to live their lives. This is the base reality where most people whether of any religious belief or not live their lives. Going about their work, eating, procreating and all the rest.

 

[Mock Turtle]

You think it’s silly to question reality, and our relationship with it?

I think it is silly for you to nitpick over what is obvious - that no matter what beliefs people have, they all operate in this same reality. No matter what their beliefs might be, the 'rules' of this reality will not distinguish between them.

 

[viole]

No, that is the point.
Nobody is outside nature and nurture. Except you of course.

Which means your claim is also not valid in general. And it it isn't, then it is possible that my claims are, right?

And yes, I like to think that 2+2=4 is beyond nature and nurture. I actually think that only insane people might think that a claim like 2+2=4 is negotiable, according to nature and nurture.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Windwalker]

Is belief a choice? Why or why not?

I suppose it depends upon how you define choice. We may believe something to be true, simply because it is an assumed truth because it's how we were taught or programmed to think through our families and culture. But is that really a choice?

If once given information that may challenges those assumptions though, then I'd say choice comes online. We typically choose to stick with the assumptions, at first at least. Or then we choose to question them. Once there is an alternative view offered, then I'd say we are choosing. Yes.

Is lack of belief a choice? Why or why not?

It depends upon if by "lack of belief", you mean simply a passive ignorance of information, or if you mean it in the sense of an active "lack of belief" in some specific question you are fully aware of as a question.

If it's the former, just plain unawareness of something, then of course not. That' not a choice. If it's the latter sense of a "lack of a positive belief" in something you are aware off, then that is a choice. A negative belief in a known proportion is still a belief, in that it was given a conscious consideration and a choice of either a positive or negative belief. That's clearly a choice.

So yes, if someone has never even heard of God, then their "lack of belief" in God is simply an absence of awareness of the question. That's not a choice. But those who have heard of the idea of God and considered it, and then don't believe it, that is a choice. It is a belief.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Where do you want to look for starters?

Branches of science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, that is cultural in part as I know of at least one other way to claim what science is.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Which means your claim is also not valid in general. And it it isn't, then it is possible that my claims are, right?

And yes, I like to think that 2+2=4 is beyond nature and nurture. I actually think that only insane people might think that a claim that 2+2=4 is negotiable, according to nature and nurture.

Ciao

- viole

Nothing is valid in general for all of the world.
As for that you understand 2+2=4 is in your brain as there are humans, that don't understand that, but are still humans.
If you had something happen to your brain you could lose your ability to understand 2+2=4.
So it depends on nature as per you having a brain and culture, that you are one, so you learned 2+2=4.

As for negotiable, that is beyond the point. The point is you are in nature and a part of a given culture.

 

[viole]

Nothing is valid in general for all of the world.

The world opinion is irrelevant when it comes to analytical truths. Truths that are independent of opinion.

Your problem is that you overrate what the average human being can think.

Ciao

- viole

 

[RestlessSoul]

I think it is silly for you to nitpick over what is obvious - that no matter what beliefs people have, they all operate in this same reality. No matter what their beliefs might be, the 'rules' of this reality will not distinguish between them.

We all have to find a way to live in reality, sure. For some, just living without questioning what it means to be alive might be enough. For others, the search for meaning and purpose beyond our finite selves and our material and emotional concerns is important. This involves asking the big questions, even if they are unanswerable.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The world opinion is irrelevant when it comes to analytical truths. Truths that are independent of opinion.

Your problem is that you overrate what the average human being can think.

Ciao

- viole

But, not brains and not all brains are the same. Truth is a process in your brain. I just have a different process in some cases even for what truth is.

 

[Nakosis]

Do you never wonder who you or what you are?

No I am my brain. Me the brain is the observer.
No reason to think anything else is needed.

Or have the sense of being a part of something greater than yourself?

Sure but I have come to realize that my brain can create these feelings regardless of actual reality.

Have you honestly never tried talking directly to God, or listening in the silence for an inner voice not perhaps your own?

Yes, subconsciously, my brain can create many inner voices. Like when I'm dreaming. I hear people in my dreams telling me things.
This doesn't mean these voices have any reality other than that which my brain has created.