Is Bible literal young earth Christian fundamentalism turning people away from God?

[ERLOS]

Nope.

So how I supposed to know what you're trying to say?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

But what makes you think I am interested in convincing anyone of my claims? What makes you think I care what you believe, or don't believe?

Are you being serious here? I've debated versus you in other threads (the "Watchmaker" thread, for example), and you seemed very intent on convincing me of your position... your position seeming to be that God exists. So... you ask me what makes me think you are interested in convincing anyone of your claims? Past experience posting with you, plain and simple:

Spirit surrounds and contains and permeates Nature. No-ones saying they understand what it is or why. Why do you think people who talk about God are stupid? Einstein wasn't. Nor Newton. Nor Max Planck ...

The above is from the other thread - so these appeals to acceptance of "spirit", your appeals to authority to refute the idea (that you brought up in the conversation, NOT ME) that "people who talk about God are stupid" - none of that was you trying to convince me of your claims? Don't be surprised if I don't believe you if your answer is "no."

It is YOU who keep demanding I explain/prove etc, what i believe.

Because you are the one with the claims... CLAIMS THAT YOU (and people like you) INSIST AFFECT MY LIFE AND/OR ETERNAL LIVELIHOOD. That's why. Name ONE claim that I make that I insist affects your life. Name one thing that I have tried to convince you of that I claim you shouldn't be living without. Can you? If you actually can and I have no choice but to own up to it, then I will sincerely apologize, because that would have been a blatant insult to your intelligence.

But I have no obligation to do so. You cannot DISprove what I believe, and anyway, why does it matter to you so much what I believe?

What you believe is not so important so much as WHY you believe it. Do you honestly think that if your arguments were sound, and evidences clear and irrefutable, that I would continue to question you and prod you for the reasons of your belief? Am I not allowed some amount of curiosity about my fellow man who believes something strange in spite of its clear departure from the reality I experience? I ask uncomfortable questions - I admit it! But you should know that the reverse simply isn't possible. You couldn't ask me a single question regarding spiritual belief that would make me uncomfortable. The reason for this situation is obvious to me - what do you think about it?

It makes you feel good about yourself and intellectually superior to 'theists' just come out and say it.

If you call me losing more faith in humanity the more insufficient gobbledygook I read from theists and the more I feel the need to refute - if you call that "feeling good"... then yes... I must be feeling fantastic!

Prove God doesn't exist.

I can't. I am readily willing to admit it. Are you willing to admit the corollary - which is that you can't prove that God DOES exist?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So how I supposed to know what you're trying to say?

By following the conversation. If confused use the back arrow in each post next to where you see "<some member> said:"

 

[ERLOS]

By following the conversation. If confused use the back arrow in each post next to where you see "<some member> said:"

I am becoming truly wise by your teaching

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am becoming truly wise by your teaching

It is so basic that there should be no such need

When you can follow a conversation you can drop me a line.

 

[ERLOS]

Are you being serious here? I've debated versus you in other threads (the "Watchmaker" thread, for example), and you seemed very intent on convincing me of your position... your position seeming to be that God exists. So... you ask me what makes me think you are interested in convincing anyone of your claims? Past experience posting with you, plain and simple:


The above is from the other thread - so these appeals to acceptance of "spirit", your appeals to authority to refute the idea (that you brought up in the conversation, NOT ME) that "people who talk about God are stupid" - none of that was you trying to convince me of your claims? Don't be surprised if I don't believe you if your answer is "no."


Because you are the one with the claims... CLAIMS THAT YOU (and people like you) INSIST AFFECT MY LIFE AND/OR ETERNAL LIVELIHOOD. That's why. Name ONE claim that I make that I insist affects your life. Name one thing that I have tried to convince you of that I claim you shouldn't be living without. Can you? If you actually can and I have no choice but to own up to it, then I will sincerely apologize, because that would have been a blatant insult to your intelligence.


What you believe is not so important so much as WHY you believe it. Do you honestly think that if your arguments were sound, and evidences clear and irrefutable, that I would continue to question you and prod you for the reasons of your belief? Am I not allowed some amount of curiosity about my fellow man who believes something strange in spite of its clear departure from the reality I experience? I ask uncomfortable questions - I admit it! But you should know that the reverse simply isn't possible. You couldn't ask me a single question regarding spiritual belief that would make me uncomfortable. The reason for this situation is obvious to me - what do you think about it?


If you call me losing more faith in humanity the more insufficient gobbledygook I read from theists and the more I feel the need to refute - if you call that "feeling good"... then yes... I must be feeling fantastic!


I can't. I am readily willing to admit it. Are you willing to admit the corollary - which is that you can't prove that God DOES exist?

Last paragraph: yes.
So you had to write all that to get there?

 

[ERLOS]

It is so basic that there should be no such need

When you can follow a conversation you can drop me a line.

Hang on, master. I will retrace back through all this stuff in order to arrive at whatever superior elevated point you're trying to make. Maybe. Sometime. If life's long enough ...

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hang on, master. I will retrace back through all this stuff in order to arrive at whatever superior elevated point you're trying to make. Maybe. Sometime. If life's long enough ...

I can see by your other posts that you will probably not let yourself learn.

 

[Dell]

YEC is a fundamentalist belief, those who promote it have faith in the Bible and its account how the world was created. It is 100% scientifically inaccurate and the bibles account will never be compatible with science no matter how OEC crowd bends it. The Bible wasn't written with an OEC view.

That said, If the Bibles creation account were true, then the physics of the observable universe we live in would be a deception. What justification would a supposedly HOLY deity have to damn unbelief when he also deceived them.

Proponents of YEC are quickly being label as extremist and its source should be viewed as the ancient mythical religion it is. Hopefully the enlightenment by science will prevail and rid humanity of the parasite religion has been in history, robbing hard earned wealth and betterment of mostly low income people.

At most YEC can be recognized for maintaining the correct interpretation of the Bible without compromising.. why.. if people would read any history of how governments or self proclaimed individuals control the masses, by some so called document of authority, then by sword and deception, it all makes more sense why it's still around today...

 

[Marsh]

Why this all absorbing interest in discussing and dissecting this God you don't believe in on religious websites.

Might I offer one possible explanation for why some atheists pursue the question of God's existence so relentlessly with theists? It is this: converts, often feel strongly motivated to spread the good news. I have been an atheist for decades but I am a recent convert to the Keto Diet and the last half year or so I've raised the topic every chance I've gotten (see, I am doing it again). Perhaps try asking those pestering you how long they have been atheists. There might be a connection.

Oh, the sidebar here is that I am the only atheist I know who ever had an interest in discussing atheism with theists on-line. None of the atheists I know personally care to do this. So it maybe alternatively that the atheists chasing you around simply enjoy the challenge of the debate.

 

[Windwalker]

At most YEC can be recognized for maintaining the correct interpretation of the Bible without compromising..

Why on earth would that, amongst all the different understandings of the Genesis myth, would YEC be considered the correct interpretation? According to whom? Fundamentalists?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Last paragraph: yes.
So you had to write all that to get there?

There were things I felt compelled to say. And?

Note for the record, I asked quite a few questions throughout the post, you answered only the last. I'll simply maintain my opinion as to why that is. If you'd like to hear it, I'll gladly tell you. Otherwise it will simply be information I take forward in forming my opinion of how secure you are in your positions. And the answer is an emphatic "no", before you ask if I think you care... I don't expect you to care. You will understand that you don't have to care about whether or not I hold an opinion in order for me to hold it.

 

[ERLOS]

There were things I felt compelled to say. And?

Note for the record, I asked quite a few questions throughout the post, you answered only the last. I'll simply maintain my opinion as to why that is. If you'd like to hear it, I'll gladly tell you. Otherwise it will simply be information I take forward in forming my opinion of how secure you are in your positions. And the answer is an emphatic "no", before you ask if I think you care... I don't expect you to care. You will understand that you don't have to care about whether or not I hold an opinion in order for me to hold it.

I will give you one question. Think about what. I will answer one question only of you.

'Do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God.'

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I will give you one question. Think about what. I will answer one question only of you.

'Do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God.'

Hmm... one question. Okay. Do you identify much with Linus needing the security blanket?

 

[jonathan180iq]

Sorry. I actually don't mean to sound rude. But every time I post anything the atheists queue up demanding I have to answer that and explain that. It's exhausting. And I don't have to answer or explain anything really. It's my own personal belief. I don't have open every sentence with IMO do I? It's personal.belief. In fact its direct personal exprience of the divine.

It's not ridiculous. I can't prove it in material terms, especially not in words. But you can't DISPROVE it, so we should zgree to differ. Instead you feel the need to harry and nip at my ankles every sentence and phrase. Sorry; I just can't do this. Have fun with your discussion people.

...Life follows a set of pretty obvious parameters...

No it does not. Quantum mechanics and relativity, for instnce, are anything but obvious. And 96% is in dark energy and matter. I really enjoy and enthusiastically follow all science advances in my layman capacity.

We piped but you would not dance.

(Incidentally I'm not running away in defeat. I just really haven't the energy to argue and discuss even word and phrase of every post, ok?)

Fine.

How about just simple basic stuff?

Do you believe that Young Earth Creationism is a legitimate idea?
Do you believe that it helps or hinders the faith?

 

[viole]

Are these people actually seriously damaging the work of Christ and turning people away from God?

I believe that when you're down on your knees and you finally cry out: God help me, that God will respond to that first step of yours by taking the other nine steps towards you. Then and only then will you know God is really there. As a reality. And the rest of your existence will be absorbing the complete understanding that faith is safely letting God take over completely. Imo

In any faith or place or time.

But we have to ask first.

That is exactly what my muslim friend told me once. Should I believe him?

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Are these people actually seriously damaging the work of Christ and turning people away from God?

I believe that when you're down on your knees and you finally cry out: God help me, that God will respond to that first step of yours by taking the other nine steps towards you. Then and only then will you know God is really there. As a reality. And the rest of your existence will be absorbing the complete understanding that faith is safely letting God take over completely. Imo

In any faith or place or time.

But we have to ask first.

Just to set my parameters right.

Do you agree that man (and woman) have a common ancestor with carrots and it is the product of opportunistic natural selection of randomly generated traits from one original cell over billions of years? In other words: that man is a great ape that happens to be because of natural and unguided circumstances, including cataclisms, weather changes, asteroids, etc?

If not, what is the difference in substance between you and a YEC, really?

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Which God should we ask? Did you read about God in some book?

Who cares? They all seem to be equally effective, according to their respective believers. Everything goes, it seems.

I bet that if you pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or to Mother Goose, you get the same prayer answering rate than to praying to anything else.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Probably nothing, but I used to consider myself to be Republican. It was Evangelical Christians (who are almost always Young Earth Creationists) who drove me away from the Republican Party with their denial of global warming, their racism and their anti-LGBT philosophy. So I think there is a link there somewhere along the way. Trump represents what many of them represent, anti-science in general being a big part of the way in which they view the world.

I thought LSD theology sees going from being black to being white as a path of purification. So, I am not sure how that is not racist,

But I admit, that most of my knowledge of LSD theology comes from Biil Maher shows.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Subduction Zone]

I thought LSD theology sees going from being black to being white as a path of purification. So, I am not sure how that is not racist,

But I admit, that most of my knowledge of LSD theology comes from Biil Maher shows.

Ciao

- viole

Did you mean "LDS theology"? Granted there does not seem to be that much difference