Is Bible literal young earth Christian fundamentalism turning people away from God?

[A Vestigial Mote]

Perhaps. But I am me and you are you. So thanks for the wise sermon ...

I see what you did there - equating my words with something as trite, contrived and useless as a sermon. I admit to being burned quite handily there. Well played.

 

[Milton Platt]

You're saying I'm uneducated? Intellectually your mental inferior?

Why are you trying to reinterpret what I actually said? I meant exactly what was written. I did not mention your name, did I?
The data is readily available on the internet if you actually had the desire to find out.

 

[Danny1988]

Are these people actually seriously damaging the work of Christ and turning people away from God?

I believe that when you're down on your knees and you finally cry out: God help me, that God will respond to that first step of yours by taking the other nine steps towards you. Then and only then will you know God is really there. As a reality. And the rest of your existence will be absorbing the complete understanding that faith is safely letting God take over completely. Imo

In any faith or place or time.

But we have to ask first.

How are Christians who believe in God's Word, turning people away from God?

The Bible is Gods inerrant Word. If a person doesn't believe what God has told us by His Word in the Holy Scriptures, then they don't believe in God.

The bible is 100% true and accurate from cover to cover, so those who don't believe it can't be Christians. God is not trying to convince anyone to believe Him.

The believers were chosen by Him before the world was made, God predestined the whole of human history from the beginning to the end. He also predestined some to believe in Him and others to reject Him.

So we don't need to worry about those who don't believe in the young earth, they are the reprobate. They are not Gods elect so their fate is sealed, all the reprobate are going to hell.

 

[BilliardsBall]

All religions can make that claim. It is not very convincing. Prayer fails when tested. All that you will be able to demonstrate are examples of confirmation bias at best.

Restating: Would you care to be put in touch with people whose prayer miracles and answers to prayer show God's hand far beyond all statistical random possibility or do you want to continue to mock from afar?

Are your experiences the only valid experiences? Just because God rejects your prayers, does that mean God rejects all persons's prayers?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How are Christians who believe in God's Word, turning people away from God?

The Bible is Gods inerrant Word. If a person doesn't believe what God has told us by His Word in the Holy Scriptures, then they don't believe in God.

The bible is 100% true and accurate from cover to cover, so those who don't believe it can't be Christians. God is not trying to convince anyone to believe Him.

The believers were chosen by Him before the world was made, God predestined the whole of human history from the beginning to the end. He also predestined some to believe in Him and others to reject Him.

So we don't need to worry about those who don't believe in the young earth, they are the reprobate. They are not Gods elect so their fate is sealed, all the reprobate are going to hell.

It appears that you have never studied the Bible. It is far from inerrant. It is full of errors from minor to major ones. Calling such a book "God's word" is blasphemous to say the least.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Restating: Would you care to be put in touch with people whose prayer miracles and answers to prayer show God's hand far beyond all statistical random possibility or do you want to continue to mock from afar?

Are your experiences the only valid experiences? Just because God rejects your prayers, does that mean God rejects all persons's prayers?

If such people existed sure I would. But you and I know that such people are fictional as well.

 

[ERLOS]

I see what you did there - equating my words with something as trite, contrived and useless as a sermon. I admit to being burned quite handily there. Well played.

Missed The Sermon on the Mount, did you? I kinda liked that one ...

 

[Muffled]

Are these people actually seriously damaging the work of Christ and turning people away from God?

I believe that when you're down on your knees and you finally cry out: God help me, that God will respond to that first step of yours by taking the other nine steps towards you. Then and only then will you know God is really there. As a reality. And the rest of your existence will be absorbing the complete understanding that faith is safely letting God take over completely. Imo

In any faith or place or time.

But we have to ask first.

I believe so. My granddaugter was taught evolution which gainsays creation but the young earth played into that as well. I described to her the fact that there are two creation stories, one without a date and one with the circa 5000 date.

 

[Muffled]

Just feeling a bit snotty today. In my own experience, the biggest dangers to religion are its followers. That is why I and lots of others have questioned to legitimacy of religions available today. One Evangelical told me that I had to be a trinitarian to be saved. A Catholic recently told me equally nutty things.

And I agree with your statement about how we come to know God. For me a part of that is to eventually figure out who Jesus is, but I'll let it go from there.

I believe my salvation led to a belief in the Trinity not vice versa. So I would say don't try to put the cart before the horse.

 

[Muffled]

Couple of things , here. Because you could speculate that it isn't literal, is one thing. However to base theories regarding Scripture, based on what you might read in other books, or science ideas, can be very incorrect. As in, it can be more incorrect from a perspective of actuality, than the literal yec. That is really where it matters, because the 'information', presented as facts in non Biblical context, can be very wrong, and literally completely wrong.

Hence, the literal version, actually I'm fine with it, it's better than the theories presented by science, when taken as a whole.

However I believe when faced with two different interpretations of scripture and one aligns with known facts and the other doesn't, it would make more sense to believe in the one that aligns with the facts.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Missed The Sermon on the Mount, did you? I kinda liked that one ...

Technically we ALL missed it, didn't we? Anyway, if the following are counted among the highlights:

• Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
• Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
• Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
• Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
• Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
• Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
• Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
• Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
• Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
• Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Then I would count even this most famous of sermons as pretty flounderingly useless. And here's why: all of the above bullets deal with the effects one should expect to their "spiritual well-being" should they hold and foster these attributes for themselves. This pre-supposes that there is a "spiritual well-being" to be concerned with in the first place.

They would be leagues more important and relevant to life as we live it on Earth if they, instead, focused on human-to-human interactions and the good that those can (and can be proven to) produce. The closest we get in this ridiculous list is "Blessed are the merciful" and "Blessed are the peacemakers" which I colored in red. And those mentions aren't even concerned with the effect those things have on your fellow man... but again focus on the "spiritual rewards" one can expect. It's asinine. And the reason I left out "Blessed are the pure of heart" is because there is no way to discern what that even means - and doesn't necessarily have any impact on your fellow man.

 

[ERLOS]

Technically we ALL missed it, didn't we? Anyway, if the following are counted among the highlights:

• Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
• Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
• Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
• Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
• Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
• Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
• Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
• Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
• Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
• Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Then I would count even this most famous of sermons as pretty flounderingly useless. And here's why: all of the above bullets deal with the effects one should expect to their "spiritual well-being" should they hold and foster these attributes for themselves. This pre-supposes that there is a "spiritual well-being" to be concerned with in the first place.

They would be leagues more important and relevant to life as we live it on Earth if they, instead, focused on human-to-human interactions and the good that those can (and can be proven to) produce. The closest we get in this ridiculous list is "Blessed are the merciful" and "Blessed are the peacemakers" which I colored in red. And those mentions aren't even concerned with the effect those things have on your fellow man... but again focus on the "spiritual rewards" one can expect. It's asinine. And the reason I left out "Blessed are the pure of heart" is because there is no way to discern what that even means - and doesn't necessarily have any impact on your fellow man.

You see? That's called freedom of religion.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You see? That's called freedom of religion.

It is my opinion that you replied this way because, with your mind fixated on the overwhelming popularity of Jesus and his teachings, you assumed that the sermon on the mount was something towering in greatness over much other theological or philosophical thought. But then, when I actually replied with a listing of "The Beatitudes" it became apparent to you that to a non-believer, the list is quite pointless... almost laughably so. I think you came to this realization when I actually put the content in front of your eyes... and then suddenly realized you were left with nothing any more meaningful to say.

 

[ERLOS]

It is my opinion that you replied this way because, with your mind fixated on the overwhelming popularity of Jesus and his teachings, you assumed that the sermon on the mount was something towering in greatness over much other theological or philosophical thought. But then, when I actually replied with a listing of "The Beatitudes" it became apparent to you that to a non-believer, the list is quite pointless... almost laughably so. I think you came to this realization when I actually put the content in front of your eyes... and then suddenly realized you were left with nothing any more meaningful to say.

Oh no, I'm quite secure in judging Jesus' words wiser than yours.

Please don't flatter yourself that I consider your opinion of what I think
important.

What intrigues me is that you, and others, like to spend so much time here, convincing yourselves that you're doing your duty to save the world from ignorance. It's the self-delusion that intrigues me ...

 

[ERLOS]

Actually I'm going to cut it here. It's just too silly ...

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Oh no, I'm quite secure in judging Jesus' words wiser than yours.

Please don't flatter yourself that I consider your opinion of what I think
important.

What intrigues me is that you, and others, like to spend so much time here, convincing yourselves that you're doing your duty to save the world from ignorance. It's the self-delusion that intrigues me ...

Saving the world from ignorance isn't my main goal. That would be saving myself from ignorance. I genuinely enjoy knowing what the arguments are for both sides. That I have chosen the one I feel to be the most representative of reality is no great mystery.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If such people existed sure I would. But you and I know that such people are fictional as well.

Congratulations! Rarely have I read a more subjective or assumptive post from you. So are your experiences the only valid experiences? Because the above says to me that you say, "YES!"

 

[Subduction Zone]

Congratulations! Rarely have I read a more subjective or assumptive post from you. So are your experiences the only valid experiences? Because the above says to me that you say, "YES!"

Please, you and I both know that such people do not exist. There may be very confused people but none of them meet the standards that you set out. If such people did exist then they could be evidence for your beliefs.

You really need to watch your habit of breaking the Ninth Commandment. When you make such posts you do put the burden of proof upon yourself. And if you can't support your claim you are more than likely guilty of bearing false witness.

 

[Danny1988]

Are these people actually seriously damaging the work of Christ and turning people away from God?

I believe that when you're down on your knees and you finally cry out: God help me, that God will respond to that first step of yours by taking the other nine steps towards you. Then and only then will you know God is really there. As a reality. And the rest of your existence will be absorbing the complete understanding that faith is safely letting God take over completely. Imo

In any faith or place or time.

But we have to ask first.

I would like to make two comments here,

1. What if God created the earth mature, just as he created Adam a mature man and not an baby.

2. Could I suggest that God took the first nine steps and caused you to take the last one by giving you the gift of faith in the finished work His Son upon the cross.

 

[ERLOS]

I would like to make two comments here,

1. What if God created the earth mature, just as he created Adam a mature man and not an baby.

2. Could I suggest that God took the first nine steps and caused you to take the last one by giving you the gift of faith in the finished work His Son upon the cross.

God has rescued you, as God rescued me. I returned to Catholicism, which I regard as the shell of the nut that protects the truth within. God is there for me.

You follow the Bible as literal, and God is there for you. The Bahai follow their book and belief and God rescues them and God is there for them.

A person is quite entitled to go out and preach or spread the knowledge of the God who saved him. I believe God responds to sincere humble prayer in any time or place. God may then gradually lead them onto the path of Christ. As God did for me.

The problem comes when people begin to demand that others have to think as they think and believe as they believe. This can lead to religion trying to censor knowledge and science forced out of the classroom, etc. And far worse.

There's no real difference in principle between this and ISIS, for example. Imo?

And it is this type of aggressive Christian fundamentalism, especially in America, that I believe is turning people away from Christianity.