Is Bible literal young earth Christian fundamentalism turning people away from God?

[Ellen Brown]

Yes, Joseph Smith was a great deceiver. He promised his followers that they would eventually become gods, now that's a pretty clever sales pitch.

LOL, Oh, there is a whole train of liturgy that goes with that. Not sure of specific dates and order of things, but in the present day, the belief is that one can not get to the highest of three Heavens unless they practice Polygamy. That's fine for the men, but the women, not so much. Once they get to the Highest Heaven, then they get planets to rule. That's all fine, but Jesus said, "In the kingdom of Heaven, people neither marry nor are they given in marriage because they are as the Angels. Hmmm

Then there is the issue with polygamy, because in the book of Jacob, part of the inspired Book of Mormon, in Chapter 2, God goes into a huge rant about how men shall have one wife.

The Mormons as a people are sweet and loving. Their leaders are right out of Hell.

 

[Katzpur]

LOL, Oh, there is a whole train of liturgy that goes with that. Not sure of specific dates and order of things, but in the present day, the belief is that one can not get to the highest of three Heavens unless they practice Polygamy. That's fine for the men, but the women, not so much. Once they get to the Highest Heaven, then they get planets to rule. That's all fine, but Jesus said, "In the kingdom of Heaven, people neither marry nor are they given in marriage because they are as the Angels. Hmmm

Then there is the issue with polygamy, because in the book of Jacob, part of the inspired Book of Mormon, in Chapter 2, God goes into a huge rant about how men shall have one wife.

The Mormons as a people are sweet and loving. Their leaders are right out of Hell.

What is your problem, Ellen? I am so sick and tired of your bull$hit. You just can't stop yourself from lying, can you? I mean, it's a compulsive thing with you, isn't it?

If Mormons believed that we can't "get to the Highest Heaven unless [we] practice polygamy," none of us would anticipate ever getting there! And we do anticipate getting there, by the way. How stupid would it be to believe something like that? Why would our leaders say, "You have to practice polygamy to get to the 'Highest Heaven', but don't do it; it's not allowed"? I mean that's just a no-brainer.

Why can't you just stop it with the hate talk? You must be getting some kind of sick satisfaction out of it. I just can't figure out what it is.

By the way, to anyone who may be reading the nonsense that our resident anti-Mormon expert is saying, here's the "huge rant" God supposedly goes off on "about how men shall have one wife":

Jacob 2:27-28 "Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts. Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes. For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."

Yup, huge rant.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

LOL, Oh, there is a whole train of liturgy that goes with that. Not sure of specific dates and order of things, but in the present day, the belief is that one can not get to the highest of three Heavens unless they practice Polygamy.

This is untrue. The mainstream LDS Church does not recognise polygamy as a valid form of marriage. A few fundamentalist sects do but they're run by-and-large by crazies.

 

[viole]

Would you like to speak privately with people who've seen numerous prayers answered, and powerfully? I walk in those circles, thank God.

I do already. There is a plethora of friends who attests how many of their prayers are answered. Most are Hindus. They pray for basically everything, and apparently it works.

Should I take them seriously?

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Yeah, well you can't believe everything you hear from Bill Mahler. Or maybe you just need to lay of the LSD. I will not even attempt to deny racism in certain LDS Church policies in the past. Not only will I not deny racism, I will in no way attempt to condone it. Period. But no knowledgeable LDS person today believes a word of any nonsense that as a person becomes more pure, his skin becomes whiter. These days, the LDS Church actually has a very good relationship with the Black community. Here's just one example: LDS Church expands collaboration with NAACP.

Nice to see that metaphysical beliefs are adaptable to circumstances. Sort of.

I liked the idea to have the highest level of purity. Especially, in winter.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Marsh]

It's important to keep this in mind. If presidents were elected on moral principles Kennedy would never have become president. Even Trump supporters can agree that as a man he is a scumbag. We ought not let his lack of morality cloud the real issues of his destructive power over the office he holds.

Pcarl, I think if we all knew more about the private sexual lives of the men and women we elect, and if we based our decisions in the ballet booth solely on a set moral code, many of our public officials would never hold office. We might then miss out on some of our best Presidents or Prime Ministers. When it comes to Trump I don't hold quite so negative a view as yourself. Some of those things he says that those on the left get so riled up about I think are hilarious. Sometimes I think he does cross the line, but the good things he's done far out weigh the bad, at least in the view of most conservatives. Why else would he have an 88% approval rating among the Republicans (the highest ever!). Let's face it, anyone who attacks every single thing Trump does (and many do) probably suffers from a serious psychological condition tentatively named Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

[metis]

I think if we all knew more about the private sexual lives of the men and women we elect, and if we based our decisions in the ballet booth solely on a set moral code, many of our public officials would never hold office.

Let's not play the "false equivalency" game, OK. Just because Mother Theresa sinned, that doesn't make her like Adolph Hitler or Attila the Hun.

The listing of Trump's both moral and legal atrocities we've never seen the likes of here in the States with any previous president, and I shouldn't have to go through a litany on what he's done that violates either, right?

 

[pearl]

Why else would he have an 88% approval rating among the Republicans (the highest ever!).

Because they finally have what many of them have wanted for the last 50 years. Trump is in it for himself. He has never served this country in any capacity, has and does only serve himself. Ask yourself why Trump nominated Brett Kavanaugh.

 

[Marsh]

Because they finally have what many of them have wanted for the last 50 years. Trump is in it for himself. He has never served this country in any capacity, has and does only serve himself. Ask yourself why Trump nominated Brett Kavanaugh.

This is not an area where I have much expertise, and what I will tell you is essentially the opinion of Ben Shapiro who I thoroughly trust in this matter. He calls Kavanaugh a moderate and believes he has the potential to be a swing vote, much like Kennedy. The preference of the right was to see a solid conservative like Amy Barrett placed on the Supreme Court. I can tell you, Shapiro and others like him are disappointed. I don't know why the left has a problem with this pick, but I imagine they simply would be angry with any person chosen by Trump. They would have had much more to complain about had Trump chosen Barrett.

 

[Marsh]

Let's not play the "false equivalency" game, OK. Just because Mother Theresa sinned, that doesn't make her like Adolph Hitler or Attila the Hun.

Why would you raise Adolph Hitler. He has nothing to do with this conversation. Are you trying to compare Trump to Hitler?

The listing of Trump's both moral and legal atrocities we've never seen the likes of here in the States with any previous president...

I am sorry, but this statement does not strike me as rational. Trump has never committed an atrocity. He is no rose, but he is no Al Capone either, and he has done some great things, not least of which was moving the US embassy to Jerusalem. Bush and Obama both ran on the promise of moving the embassy but only Trump saw the promise through. He may be the first president to actually carry through on so many of his election promises. I applaud him. In Canada I have seen Prime Ministers run on a promise only to do the opposite when they get into office. Trump has kept most of his promises, his electorate remembers that.

 

[Ellen Brown]

This is untrue. The mainstream LDS Church does not recognise polygamy as a valid form of marriage. A few fundamentalist sects do but they're run by-and-large by crazies.

I am completely sure on this one. You are confused. There is so called "Deep Doctrine" that people who are not "Temple Mormons" are not supposed to know. I don't have a way to absolutely prove it, though I have talked with different members who confirmed what I said. Most members regard such doctrine as "private" and they are not bound to tell the truth.

To be clear, local area Mormons are some of the sweetest people you'd want to meet. Many of the higher leaders are the "crazies", as you say it.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I am completely sure on this one. You are confused. There is so called "Deep Doctrine" that people who are not "Temple Mormons" are not supposed to know. I don't have a way to absolutely prove it, though I have talked with different members who confirmed what I said. Most members regard such doctrine as "private" and they are not bound to tell the truth.

To be clear, local area Mormons are some of the sweetest people you'd want to meet. Many of the higher leaders are the "crazies", as you say it.

I was brought up in that Church and I have literally nothing to gain by telling any lies just now. I can assure you what you're saying is not true.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I do already. There is a plethora of friends who attests how many of their prayers are answered. Most are Hindus. They pray for basically everything, and apparently it works.

Should I take them seriously?

Ciao

- viole

What do you think?

 

[metis]

Why would you raise Adolph Hitler. He has nothing to do with this conversation. Are you trying to compare Trump to Hitler?

No, I was clearly not comparing Trump to Hitler or Attila the Hun but was using an example of "false equivalency". What a disingenuous strawman you created out of this. Truly, truly pathetic.

I am sorry, but this statement does not strike me as rational. Trump has never committed an atrocity.

So, let's take a look at some of what he has done: committed adultery; paying off people; refused to pay sub-contractors for work done; constantly lies; has been fined for illegal use of campaign funds; was fined for his Trump University fiasco; put forth and signed into law his tax cuts that will hurt the poor through cuts in Medicaid besides ramping-up the deficit; made fun of someone who is handicapped; chanted "Lock her up!" that would violate the Constitution that he pledged to uphold; made numerous racist comments; has threatened to "bomb the hell out of them" [NK & Iran] that would kill a great many innocent people; has turned on our allies while befriending tyrants; has separated children from their parents; has attacked our own intelligence apparatus; fired Comey to try and stop the investigation as he admitted twice; endorsed Roy Moore who is a racist and a sexual predator; etc.

So, I guess the question I have to ask you is do you think morals are important, and if you think they are, then why are you supporting a man who acts like Trump does?

Trump has kept most of his promises, his electorate remembers that.

Like "drain the swamp" that he now has in place? Like ending "crony capitalism" which he heavily is involved in? Like helping farmers that he is now hurting with the effects of his tariffs? Like making admiring statements about Putin, who kills opponents and has invaded countries, and other tyrants? Etc?

Gandhi said "To cooperate with evil is evil", and all too much that Trump has said and done is evil. If that's who and what you support, then I guess there's no where to go with this discussion.

 

[Katzpur]

I am completely sure on this one. You are confused.

Temple marriage is said to be required for Exaltation. Plural marriage is not. You are flat out lying, and you won't admit it.

To be clear, local area Mormons are some of the sweetest people you'd want to meet. Many of the higher leaders are the "crazies", as you say it.

The leaders of some of the fundamentalist sects (the FLDS, and it's imprisoned prophet, Warren Jeffs, for instance) are perhaps "crazies," but you're the only one who's calling the leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "crazies." The Emperor of Mankind never said anything of the sort. He may no longer be a believer, and that's fine, but at least he has the integrity to tell the truth. Telling the truth just isn't your style, though, is it? And apparently, the commandment not to bear false witness isn't part of your theology, as you basically break it every time you post something about Mormonism. (I am willing to excuse ignorance, but you have been corrected on numerous occasions when you have posted something that is incorrect. Rather than just admit that you were wrong, you just continue to spout off the same lies again and again and again.)

 

[Ellen Brown]

I was brought up in that Church and I have literally nothing to gain by telling any lies just now. I can assure you what you're saying is not true.

I am guessing that you are either from Ireland or Scotland, and I am from Oregon, USA, though on that I am not guessing. Looking at your page cleared up a couple of mysteries about the church.

It is possible that there are subtle differences between where I live and where you live. I was a member also from 2012 to 2017, and left because of the Deep Doctrine that they started pushing. I am not considered worthy because of an event that was forced on me, and was not my fault. Sadly SLC continued to hold my feet to the fire over said event. Sadly, there is no communication of issues from member to President.

I got the information that we disagree on from a close friend who remained a member after I left. I would appreciate it if you refrained from saying I am lying, but we can agree to disagree because I am stating the truth according to information given by two sisters, one who still attends the Temple. I am not mad at the church but I do know there are certain practices, some of which defy scripture, and members are expected to not speak of. The secret Name and the secret handshake come from the Masons. There is just lots of symbolism in the temple that has no basis. I was in the Temple twice to participate in Baptisms for the Dead, and there was a lot of trouble over that. LOL.

I am not attacking the LDS church, but the truth needs to come out on certain issues, and I will not back down.

 

[Katzpur]

I am guessing that you are either from Ireland or Scotland, and I am from Oregon, USA, though on that I am not guessing. Looking at your page cleared up a couple of mysteries about the church.

It is possible that there are subtle differences between where I live and where you live. I was a member also from 2012 to 2017, and left because of the Deep Doctrine that they started pushing. I am not considered worthy because of an event that was forced on me, and was not my fault. Sadly SLC continued to hold my feet to the fire over said event. Sadly, there is no communication of issues from member to President.

I got the information that we disagree on from a close friend who remained a member after I left. I would appreciate it if you refrained from saying I am lying, but we can agree to disagree because I am stating the truth according to information given by two sisters, one who still attends the Temple. I am not mad at the church but I do know there are certain practices, some of which defy scripture, and members are expected to not speak of. The secret Name and the secret handshake come from the Masons. There is just lots of symbolism in the temple that has no basis. I was in the Temple twice to participate in Baptisms for the Dead, and there was a lot of trouble over that. LOL.

I am not attacking the LDS church, but the truth needs to come out on certain issues, and I will not back down.

Some people are just compulsive liars. And it looks like we have one of those folks here. Nobody is considered to be "unworthy" to enter the temple "because of an event that was forced" on them. What a boatload of bull$hit! And the President of the Church is never consulted over a member's worthiness. That is handled 100% on a local level. Salt Lake City had absolutely zero say in the matter and no interest in holding your feet to the fire. What an over-inflated ego you must have to think that the president of a 16-million member organization is going to have the time to listen to the petty grievances of everyone who feels picked on!

Furthermore, you can't name one thing in the temple that "defies scripture." You don't even have any first-hand experience with the endowment, and your second-hand knowledge can't hold a candle to my nearly 50-year first-hand experience. Someone in an LDS leadership position pissed you off, and now you're going to retaliate because "the truth needs to come out." Sorry, sweetie, you wouldn't know the truth if it hit you over the head with a two-by-four. Maybe you're not going to back down, but neither am I. And every time you post another lie, I'll be right there in your face to post the truth. Just keep looking over your shoulder, because I'm everywhere you are. I have credibility on this forum. I've earned it through my honesty and integrity over the past 14 years here. You're miles behind me and you're never going to catch up at the rate you're going -- one step forward (a truthful statement) and two steps back (two lies).

 

[Muffled]

Like a sort of club, you mean? The Us Christians Club? That excludes the rest of the human race, the neighbours Jesus told us to love?

How many missionaries does your club have working in leper colonies in Africa?

I believe working in a leper colony will not get a person into the Kingdom of God if the person does not have Jesus as Lord and Savior.

 

[Muffled]

It's important to keep this in mind. If presidents were elected on moral principles Kennedy would never have become president. Even Trump supporters can agree that as a man he is a scumbag. We ought not let his lack of morality cloud the real issues of his destructive power over the office he holds.

My understanding is that Trump received Jesus recently so all the previous stuff was from a different person.

 

[Muffled]

No they don't. My salvation is between me and the Lord, not between me and my bishop, me and my stake president or even me and the prophet. It's between me and the Lord. Period. Same goes for you.

I believe you should say whether that is simply a personal decision or church doctrine.